PaulK writes:
Unless you are proposing an official body to make such determinations doesn't it come down to individual judgement anyway ? What alternative could you offer ?
Quite simply, Jesus Christ. Humans have no capability to judge each others behaviors apart from Christ. even our vaunted logic, reason, and reality is meaningless without Christ.
Then your position is hopelessly confused, failing to realize that logic reason, and what you call human wisdom must be used to apply any standard you propose, but cannot in themselves define a standard without some basis for doing so.
Anyway, what standard do you propose ?
Belief in Jesus Christ. Only through Gods redemption and redemptive power does global society have any sort of hope to make it. you will see the ever increasing evidence that I am right.
The implication here is that you intend to be dishonest. And that you intend to "justify" that dishonesty" by trying to imply that YOUR opinions on the matter have a more-than-human source as you do so often.
I am being as honest as I can. I have no need to try and win arguments simply to validate my ego. I honestly care about each and every one of you.
Phat to Ringo writes:
Which "rock" do you suggest we build our support upon?
Ringo writes:
A tangible one. An objective one. One that a disabled black lesbian carpenter can deal with.
And thus I "preach" to build our rock upon Jesus Christ and
not upon human wisdom. Apart from Him we can and will do nothing.
Ringo writes:
The topic is about support. I think supporting belief with more belief is like building a house on sand.
You are all welcome to support your own arguments with whatever building material that you choose to use. We have free speech in this coffee house.
Now...getting back to a request.
Hooah212002 writes:
Pretty sure "watered down messages that have nothing to do with scripture" includes posting pictures of things that are untrue and miscategorize the group of people you claim to belong to. I mean really, break down every one of these into your own version, in your own argument and back it up with evidence.
So the question and challenge from Mr.Hooah is that the phrases in the picture I posted are essentially untrue, am I right? I need not attempt to defend the accusations on the right...concerning modern day Christians. I see ample evidence that those characterizations are quite true...at least in the church in America. Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with social justice and actions...it has been said in this forum that Christianity is at its best by what you
do and not by what you say. Additionally, many of you claim that you also do acts of random kindness and mercy to those less fortunate than you and that you do it with no religious agenda and with no expected heavenly reward. You do it because it is the right thing to do...and for that I applaud you. You are more like the early believers...though you remain unconvinced of the reality of Jesus Christ and I'll not say a word against you. Good Job!
Lets examine each statement:
Early Believers
Willing To Sell Everything They Had For The Gospel--Most of them didn't have much. This belief lost steam once Constantine made Christianity P.C. but it continued through the monastic order for several hundred years. There were a few notable exceptions...
Faussets Bible Dictionary writes:
ZACCHAEUS---The Lord had shortly before encountered the rich young ruler, so loveable, yet lacking one thing, the will to part with his earthly treasure and to take the heavenly as his portion. He had said then, "how hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God;" yet to show us that "the things impossible with men are possible with God" (Luke 18:18-27), and that riches are not an insuperable barrier against entrance into heaven, the case of the rich yet saved Zacchaeus follows.
Scriptural Support: Acts 4:34,Matthew 13:46. Keep in mind the audience to whom the scripture is being spoken to. In modern context, the idea is more about what is in the human heart. Don't ever let your possessions keep you from helping someone whom is placed in your path or whom your conscience compels you to help.(I am still working on this one...I was and am greedy and selfish by my sinful nature)
Beaten, whipped, murdered,deprived,imprisoned for advance of Gospel--The Apostle Paul was of course imprisoned. Jesus Himself took on the shame that human society by nature had (and still has...just watch the culture of no shame that we embrace now) To be honest with you, though...I don't have a lot of evidence personally for this one. I live in a prosperous country and am left alone. It is my choice to advance the Gospel as I understand it and I also have no proof that doing the right thing without fervent belief is in any way superior. So I concede this point to you critics...for now.
Taught Sound Doctrine,studied to show thyself approved to God. The early believers were careful to preserve sound doctrine. It is my belief that the many Bibles we have today are the result of such preservation...careful study between them shows very little discrepancy in wording, which is resolved through the communion of the Spirit within the believers of today. The problem is when the church attempts consensus with secular society.
Believers Diligent To Learn All Scripture jar always gets on my case asking me whether I've even read the Bible. I am still reading, and am open to other opinions of what the scriptures mean...though I also test the spirits and can tell when someone wishes knowingly or unknowingly to water down a message or to attempt to re-frame it according to cultural consensus. We can discuss this on an individual scripture by scripture basis, though we likely would go on for years.
willing to pick up cross I am still not exactly sure of the symbolism of this quote. Honestly, I would be scared to die...but we all die eventually anyway. I suppose I try and do my best on a daily basis. Many days I fall short and many things that I have said in these forums I later regret having said. I focus on my relationship with Jesus on a daily basis.Oftentimes, this relationship is tested by how I relate to all of you. I wont compromise my argument unless internally compelled, but I try and treat each of you with respect as humans and don't seek to insult or "one up" anybody.
The rest of the list builds on what I just said...which gets us to the last one.....
Being Transformed Into New Creation It is my belief that this action is not mere evolution of human wisdom. It is through a daily communion with Jesus Christ and through a daily love of others. Please forgive me if I still snap at you and give you snarly comments....and I will try my best to be polite without compromising my own integrity to myself and to God.
Edited by Phat, : re examination of what I said
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
I try and learn things from you guys when I can. Internet Encyclopedia Of Philosophy-Sophists
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