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Author Topic:   How Scientifically Literate Are You?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22606
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 91 of 134 (697924)
05-01-2013 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by NoNukes
05-01-2013 3:13 PM


Re: To Frac
NoNukes writes:
As best as I can tell, the frack spelling was indeed originated by environmentalists. It was originated by someone at Earthworks.
This is just my guess at things. The full term is hydraulic fracturing, and so I'm guessing that it frist got shortened to hydrofracturing, and then to hydrofracking, and finally to fracking. The problem with the "frac" form is that it doesn't spell well - the alternatives to "fracking" are "fracing" and "fraccing", both of which look funny. So even if Petro is right that the original abbreviated form was "frac", once it leaked out into wider use the more reasonable spelling was inevitable, which is consistent with your blaming it on an outsider group like the environmentalists.
But I believe it is even possible that Petro's preferred "frac" is just local to his own community. I was in a programming subcommunity for years where I adopted standard ways of writing code and talking about code that I assumed were universal, only to discover they were local as I began moving around.
But according to Wikipedia, "frac" is a geologic term for fractures in rock formations, so the term may have been adopted by well drillers, verbing what was originally a noun, and completely ruining my theory that fracking derives from the term hydraulic fracturing.
--Percy

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1581 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 92 of 134 (697925)
05-01-2013 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
05-01-2013 3:23 PM


Re: Metric System groupies and scientific literacy
How about this one?
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/
No excuse I'm afraid.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1581 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 93 of 134 (697926)
05-01-2013 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Straggler
05-01-2013 2:44 PM


Re: To Frac

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 94 of 134 (697927)
05-01-2013 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by dwise1
05-01-2013 3:24 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
All of the measuring cups that are in my kitchen came marked with metric and English.
The thing I liked about metric was that 1 cc of water weighs 1 gram and is 1 milliliter. That makes it really easy to calibrate graduated cylinders, pipettes, syringes, etc. using a balance.
It also make calculating solution percentages easier.
It's funny I use metric for some things and English for others without any problems. I just hate converting between them and Fahrenheit is just stupid.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3789 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 95 of 134 (697928)
05-01-2013 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Straggler
05-01-2013 2:38 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
Straggler writes:
Panda writes:
Our alcohol is pints.
Even vodka..? Only kiddin.
Vodka is gallons.
Straggler writes:
Milk is still in pints.
It is actually even more complicated (read 'confused').
Glass bottled milk is pints and plastic bottled milk is litres - of course! That makes perfect sense!! *scratches head*
Straggler writes:
Don't butchers and green grocers still do pounds?
I think they have to provide prices for both pounds and kilos.
I recall something about EU rules trying to enforce this.
Straggler writes:
Olde swet shops still do old weight measures too.
"A quarter of toffee chewing nuts please!"
Straggler writes:
Really? I haven't seen anything but litres for years and years.
Ah yes ( - I think I was showing my age).
It is fuel economy that is still quoted in gallons.
It's like a school test: "Petrol costs 1.20 per litre. A car does 50 miles to the gallon. How much would it cost to drive 200 miles?"
Straggler writes:
I think a lot of people are just as comfortable with Kgs.
I've not met anyone that knew their weight in kilos (except sporty people) - but I guess YMMV.
Straggler writes:
But - Yes - We use a mixed bag of measurements.
I think that is an understatement!
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6418
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 96 of 134 (697938)
05-01-2013 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
05-01-2013 2:30 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
Faith writes:
Darn tootin, I like America being unique too.
It would be nice if our uniqueness were in being ahead of the rest of the world, rather than being behind the rest of the world.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 1065 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 97 of 134 (697943)
05-01-2013 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Percy
05-01-2013 3:43 PM


Re: To Frac
But according to Wikipedia, "frac" is a geologic term for fractures in rock formations,
Interesting. I have never heard that term before.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 134 (697944)
05-01-2013 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by dwise1
05-01-2013 3:24 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
This seems a little confused
That also touches upon a fundamental confusion that the US system causes, in that weight is measured as a force
That's the correct method for measuring weight. Weight is the force due to gravity. The real inconsistency is that almost nobody uses slugs unless they are doing homework problems. We instead indicate mass using weight on earth surface.
whereas the metric system measures mass.
Not really true.
Some apparatus measure mass while others measure weight. For example a balance with standard masses will indicate the same mass on any planet surface. Scales using springs indicate weights.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1521 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 99 of 134 (697948)
05-02-2013 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by nwr
05-01-2013 7:23 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
It would be nice if our uniqueness were in being ahead of the rest of the world, rather than being behind the rest of the world.
Well, we used to be ahead until the Left had at us, now we're on the way to Third World status.
Not that that has anything to do with the metric system of course. Except that we were the most prosperous and inventive and benevolent society on the planet without it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 134 (697973)
05-02-2013 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by roxrkool
05-01-2013 9:32 PM


Re: To Frac
Percy writes:
But according to Wikipedia, "frac" is a geologic term for fractures in rock formations,
Rox writes:
Interesting. I have never heard that term before.
It's an abbreviation used by American Stratigraphic Company and basically they set the standard for geologic abbreviations used for describing drill cuttings and cores. I also use them for measured sections as do many at the USGS.
frac is on page 6, I have an origional of this from back in the 70's in color.
http://download.egi.utah.edu/geothermal/GL03778/GL03778.pdf
Edited by petrophysics1, : No reason given.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 101 of 134 (697974)
05-02-2013 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by petrophysics1
05-02-2013 7:27 AM


Re: To Frac
Hi petrophysics1
I'm currently involved (government initiative) in setting up guidelines for exploration by means of 'fracturing' and extraction of shale gas in the central Karoo basin (the gas is there, the exploration for resources by 'fracking' and the extraction method is controversial).
It's going to be exciting. Lot's of challenges from everywhere, also from the greenies (even though I'm a soft greenie).
I've never heard of a word called 'frac', previously, though. Maybe it's an American word not used anywhere else? But, you've added to my vocab. As long as you learn the word 'braai' when you do barbeques on our extracted, fracked shale gas here!!
Never too old to learn, I guess. Just don't expect everyone in the rest of the English speaking world to understand every word of your or my English. It differs way too much.
Edited by Pressie, : Changed a lot.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1101 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 102 of 134 (697975)
05-02-2013 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Panda
05-01-2013 4:48 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
I think they have to provide prices for both pounds and kilos.
I recall something about EU rules trying to enforce this.
There's no requirement to provide pounds, but many do for the benefit of people who don't like metric, but it is a legal requirement to provide metric measures, except for a few things (beer, milk bottles, fuel efficiency, and anything measured in miles). Originally, European directives demanded that the UK phase out imperial measurements, but the Commission was apparently surprised about the level of public outrage and vitriol this provoked, so they backed down. The UK is the only country in the EU allowed to use miles instead of kilometres on its road signs.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5967
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 103 of 134 (697993)
05-02-2013 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
05-01-2013 2:55 PM


Re: No Fracking Problem
Scientists can learn to do the conversions, don't impose it on the rest of us.
Scientists don't have to do the conversions, because by working within the metric system they have absolutely no need to convert between metric and English/US.
The irony of your position is that by sticking with the English/US system, you need to perform non-trivial unit conversion calculations all the time. For example, converting from feet to miles and back again. Or even worse, converting fractional feet to inches to calculate a volume then having to convert from cubic inches to cubic feet. Or having to chain such calculations together from inches to feet to miles and back. And that's not counting having to keep lists of all kinds of odd unit conversions, like from cubic feet to gallons. It's non-stop in the English system.
Of course, you also have to do unit conversions in metric, but since those are done my mulitiply and dividing by powers of 10, the work involved is trivial. And instead of having to keep lists of obscure conversion factors, you can easily rederive what you need on the spot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 05-01-2013 2:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 488 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 104 of 134 (697996)
05-02-2013 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by 1.61803
05-01-2013 3:49 PM


Re: Metric System groupies and scientific literacy
quote:
... NASA has been using the metric system predominantly since at least 1990. source
Predominantly?
If you can't make up your mind which system you're using, it doesn't matter how good the system is.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 105 of 134 (697998)
05-02-2013 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Pressie
05-02-2013 7:59 AM


Re: To Frac
I've never heard of a word called 'frac', previously, though. Maybe it's an American word not used anywhere else? But, you've added to my vocab. As long as you learn the word 'braai' when you do barbeques on our extracted, fracked shale gas here!!
Lekker!

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