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Author Topic:   UK's Thatcher, rot in hell . . .
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 1 of 149 (696451)
04-16-2013 9:53 AM


Tang writes:
You think a children's tune from the Wizard of Oz is the same sentiment as saying 'rot in hell, bitch'? I disagree.
Drone writes:
So if I showed up at your mother's funeral and started singing the song "Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead", you would think I was merely singing a children's tune?
Tang writes:
I'd think you were being a callous, unfeeling idiot, with no thought for the grieving friends and family and you'd be asked to leave. But if you started shouting rot in hell you bitch" I'd probably punch your fucking lights out. To coin a phrase.
Well, let's see . . . 'Ding Dong the Witch is Dead' and 'Burn in hell bitch' sentiments are BOTH expressed jubilations of a person being dead. And BOTH of the expressions contain a derogatory nickname. Geee whiz, I can certainly understand why you feel they are sooo very different. I haven't been so convinced with an opponent's desperate example since Crashfrog explained to me that water is actually dry.
Tang writes:
So you weren't in the UK when she was in power. You therefore have as much of a clue about living in the UK with Thatcher as I have of living in the US with Reagan. Which is zilch.
Chuckle. Under both Thatcher and Reagan, there was the escalation of the Cold War, income taxes was cut, privatization was pushed, tax rates for the rich were lowered, unions were broken, globalization over national interests were advanced, and military spending was massively increased. The result was rising unemployment, stagnant or lowering of wages, and higher poverty rates . . . lower standards of living for the 99%. Sorry Pops, maybe you're the one with 0% understanding.
Tang writes:
she got rid of Pinochet.
Wow. Why are supporters of war criminals ALWAYS sooo delusional . . .
quote:
Thatcher stands by Pinochet
Friday, March 26, 1999
Baroness Thatcher has visited General Pinochet at the home where he is staying under house arrest near London - and talked of the "debt" she believes the UK owes him.
She added: "I'm also very much aware that it is you who brought democracy to Chile, you set up a constitution suitable for democracy, you put it into effect, elections were held, and then, in accordance with the result, you stepped down."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/304516.stm
quote:
Margaret Thatcher’s true legacy was the war criminal Tony Blair
The miners war was won by the Thatcher government Cheaper from virtual slave wages soviet controlled Polish coal was imported into the UK and billions of UK money went out of the UK economy to prop up communist Poland and also communist Soviet Russia.
The war in Argentina. . . . Maggie Thatcher said if UK would look like losing in the Falkland island (Malvina’s Island) conflict then it was to do simple plan and to use the old Vulcan bombers to drop a White One (nuke ) on the Buenos Aires capital city of Argentina. That event if it came to pass might have exterminated the present Pope .
http://planet.infowars.com/...some-of-her-war-crimes-exposed
quote:
She led, alongside US president Ronald Reagan, the escalation of the Cold War in the early 1980s, threatening a new round of nuclear weapons that could be used in the event of ‘theatre nuclear war’. She introduced Cruise missiles to Britain in the face of mass opposition, with major demonstrations against Cruise and a peace camp at the Greenham Common base in 1982.
In the same year she enhanced her electoral popularity by fighting the Falklands war, and agreed the order to sink the Argentinian ship General Belgrano when it was sailing away from the combat zone.
Her arms deals with Saudi Arabia were notorious.
Thatcher had few qualms in dealing with autocrats and dictators, supporting not just the reactionary House of Saud but also the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, brought to power in a US backed military coup, and Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, supported by the west in the Iran-Iraq war.
She was a strong supporter of apartheid in South Africa. She denounced Nelson Mandela.
Before she was driven from office in 1990, as a result of mass protests against her poll tax policy, she had enthusiastically signed up to the first Gulf War against Iraq, alongside the new US president George Bush senior.
Margaret Thatcher’s true legacy was the war criminal Tony Blair | Left Unity
Still not convinced? Check out this video of Dick Cheney mythologizing her. If that doesn't make you want to eat your own vomit, then you are a sociopath (aka, a republican).
quote:
'War Criminal' Dick Cheney Mythologizes Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan‬
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGI-9JWLopQ

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 11:25 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:15 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:36 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 31 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2013 1:13 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 37 by nwr, posted 04-16-2013 1:58 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 57 by Coyote, posted 04-16-2013 10:25 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2 of 149 (696466)
04-16-2013 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by dronestar
04-16-2013 9:53 AM


I'm not sure what your point is dronester, but but mine is that singing a ding dong the witch is dead at a funeral is disgusting behaviour but is slightly less revolting than personally shouting "rot in hell you bitch."
If you don't know why, you're probably the sort of person that would do it.
Secondly, Thatcher did a lot of things that needed to be done here in the UK in the 70s and, like most leaders, she was hated by some for doing them.
Equally she did a lot of things that I disagreed with. But that's just politics - the same has been said about Churchill.
And don't get overexcited about Pinochet either - I obviously meant to say that she brought down the nasty military junta in Argentina under Galtieri. Pinochet provided the UK with a lot of help with the Falklands and she stayed pretty loyal to the turd thereafter. Politics and war is not a clean business.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 9:53 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 12:36 PM Tangle has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 3 of 149 (696470)
04-16-2013 11:34 AM


speak ill of the dead?
I would say it is easier to look back in retrospect and criticize. It is quite another thing to be the one making the decisions when a decision needs to be made. Whats that old saying? History will judge.
Dronestar we got it the first time,
You do not like Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Regan.
No need to belabor the point is there?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 11:47 AM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 7 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 12:16 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4 of 149 (696472)
04-16-2013 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 11:34 AM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
I would say it is easier to look back in retrospect and criticize. It is quite another thing to be the one making the decisions when a decision needs to be made.
Yes ... but you could say that about anyone who made a decision, couldn't you? It's such a vague exculpation that it covers pretty much anything.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 11:34 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:05 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 5 of 149 (696475)
04-16-2013 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2013 11:47 AM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Hello Dr. Adequate,
Do you feel the Ex-Priminister is deserved of the kind of vitriol dronestar is heaping?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 11:47 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:30 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 6 of 149 (696477)
04-16-2013 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dronestar
04-16-2013 9:53 AM


dronester writes:
Under both Thatcher and Reagan, there was the escalation of the Cold War, income taxes was cut, privatization was pushed, tax rates for the rich were lowered, unions were broken, globalization over national interests were advanced, and military spending was massively increased.
None of which is a crime - and all of which had/have significant popular support.
dronester writes:
The result was rising unemployment, stagnant or lowering of wages, and higher poverty rates . . . lower standards of living for the 99%.
And yet, many of that 99% voted for the measures that supposedly caused those effects. You seem to be thumbing your nose at democracy as much as at Thatcher.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 9:53 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 12:20 PM ringo has replied
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:31 PM ringo has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 7 of 149 (696478)
04-16-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 11:34 AM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
1.61803 writes:
I would say it is easier to look back in retrospect and criticize.
That's a damn foolish thing to state . . .
"Gee school principal, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I cheated on my exams."
"Gee district attorney, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I stole pensions from 10,000 Enron employees."
"Gee officer, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I serial-raped 100 woman."
"Gee judge, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I murdered 1,000 children."
"Gee jury members of the Nuremburg trial, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I committed the genocide of 100,000 Poles."
"Gee members of the International Court System, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I lied to my country men into a war which I fully knew there were no WMD."
1.61803 writes:
Dronestar we got it the first time,
You do not like Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Regan (sic).
No need to belabor the point is there?
1.61803, not sure if you ever noticed, but this is a debate forum. If I state some facts and am challenged by another debater, we will continue back and forth for as long as new facts are uncovered to establish the one who's version to the truth is most correct.
That is called 'd e b a t i n g,' not 'b e l a b o r i n g.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 11:34 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:33 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 8 of 149 (696480)
04-16-2013 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
04-16-2013 12:15 PM


And yet, many of that 99% voted for the measures that supposedly caused those effects. You seem to be thumbing your nose at democracy as much as at Thatcher.
I agree. BUT, I have often said that voters often vote against their best interests for a number of reasons. Some do it with willfull ignorance. What can be done?
Health care reform for government-style sinlge payer system health care in the US WAS at 70%. So why didn't the governemnt do what we wanted?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:39 PM dronestar has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 9 of 149 (696481)
04-16-2013 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 12:05 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Hello Dr. Adequate,
Do you feel the Ex-Priminister is deserved of the kind of vitriol dronestar is heaping?
She was a bad person, and I've often said so. It is tasteless to bring it up right now, though. Why didn't he mention it last month?
But by the same token this would also be a silly time to start singing the praises she doesn't deserve. I guess certain politicians are obliged to mouth a few conventional platitudes, everyone else can just shrug and get on with whatever they're doing.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 5 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:05 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 10 of 149 (696482)
04-16-2013 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
04-16-2013 12:15 PM


And yet, many of that 99% voted for the measures that supposedly caused those effects. You seem to be thumbing your nose at democracy as much as at Thatcher.
How familiar are you with the British electoral system?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:34 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 11 of 149 (696483)
04-16-2013 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by dronestar
04-16-2013 12:16 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Hi dronester,
dronester writes:
That's a damn foolish thing to state . . .
All of your examples are fallicious reductio ad absurdium.
So your argument is that Millions of people to include yourself, did not like Margaret Thatcher and she is deserves to be reviled for the atrocities she committed in the name of the 1%?
Or is your point that it is less offensive to say rot in hell at a funeral than to sing ding dong the witch is dead?
Either way it is a matter personal opinion not a point of contention.
What ever blows your hair back.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 12:16 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:45 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 21 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 12:48 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 12 of 149 (696484)
04-16-2013 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2013 12:31 PM


Dr Adequate writes:
How familiar are you with the British electoral system?
As far as I know, it's very similar to the Canadian system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:31 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:50 PM ringo has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 13 of 149 (696485)
04-16-2013 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dronestar
04-16-2013 9:53 AM


Excuse me, did you quote infowars? Why not AnswersInGenesis while you're at it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dronestar, posted 04-16-2013 9:53 AM dronestar has replied

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 14 of 149 (696486)
04-16-2013 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tangle
04-16-2013 11:25 AM


The sounds of backpedaling . . .
Tang writes:
I'm not sure what your point is dronester, but but mine is that singing a ding dong the witch is dead at a funeral is disgusting behaviour but is slightly less revolting than personally shouting "rot in hell you bitch."
Well, this statement is now different from what you originally and oppositely stated:
Tang writes:
You think a children's tune from the Wizard of Oz is the same sentiment as saying 'rot in hell, bitch'? I disagree.
I thought shameless back-pedaling and word-acrobatics would decrease after Crashfrog left. Guess not.
Tang writes:
If you don't know why, you're probably the sort of person that would do it.
Chuckle. From the person who is supportive of a war criminal who supports other war criminals, YOU are trying to mock ME? Good one, Pops.
Tang writes:
Secondly, Thatcher did a lot of things that needed to be done here in the UK in the 70s . . .
Yes, . . . and Mussolini kept the trains on time. Kudos and bravo to them both, right?
Tang writes:
Equally she did a lot of things that I disagreed with. But that's just politics . . .
How disgustingly glib you are. No, it's not "just politics." Its people livelihoods, it's people health, and it's people lives.
Tang writes:
And don't get overexcited about Pinochet either.
Oh, you're just terrible. (Are you really Crashfrog under a different alias?) From this:
Tang writes:
she got rid of Pinochet.
To this:
Tang writes:
I obviously meant to say that she brought down the nasty military junta in Argentina under Galtieri.
Yeah, your first statement was obvious that you meant something entirely and utterly different.
Tang writes:
Politics and war is not a clean business.
Another empty and glib statement.
War acknowledges a failed leadership. Mussolini, Pinochet, Reagan, and Margaret Thatcher were horrible, despicable, criminal 'leaders.'
Rot in hell, the whole bunch of 'em.
And that's not just in 'retrospect.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 11:25 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 2:03 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 15 of 149 (696487)
04-16-2013 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2013 12:30 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Her funeral will cost the tax payers 10,000,000 dollars (are about). Should we discuss that after the service has ended?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:30 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:43 PM dronestar has replied

  
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