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Author | Topic: Kof2hu's 22 species corresponding to Genesis thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
I don't think the correspondence is accidental. I understand that, and I have no doubt that such is true. But I don't find your personal assurances to be convincing, nor do I believe your arguments advance your credibility.
... or, they had simply collected the same bones we dug up in this last century. I think the latter possibility is wanting for some support.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Homo lantianensis Scientists classify Lantian Man as a subspecies of Homo erectus. Lantian Man - Wikipedia So according to your reason for dismissing Homo Lantianensis, we should rule out counting subspecies? Then how do you explain identifying Caucasiod, Mongoloid, and Negroid as separate parts of your 22? Those are not even sub-sub species. In fact, why aren't they all lumped in with Noah? Let me lay out the problem with this stuff. I find that your reasoning includes confirmation bias. Things in the Bible that cannot fit with your interpretation can be summarily ignored or are simply opportunities for treating Bible text as allegory. And I then wonder what is the point. You claim to want the Bible to be literally true. But if you achieve this by the use of allegory, then what exactly have you accomplished? Why is your use of allegory any better than what non-literalists do? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
1) So according to your reason for dismissing Homo Lantianensis, we should rule out counting subspecies? 2) Then how do you explain identifying Caucasiod, Mongoloid, and Negroid as separate parts of your 22?
1) ?Subspecies are not different a species. They are the corresponding "those sons and daughters" which Genesis refers to after designating the actual link in the genealogy to us. Gen 5;7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters: 2) What is to explain?The evidence is science of the Three Racial Stocks that appeared after the mass extinction of all other kinds of man supports Genesis. Genesis ALSO states that Noah had three branches called sons also, which is EXACTLY what now know to have been the case. We ALSO just found out that all people living today are related tonust one man who lived about 40 thousand years ago.That fits and corrsponds exactly with the Hpothesis, that the Genealopgy is really the list of the 22 humans in our ascent to modern man. These three son are like the nail in the coffin for protesting against the Hypothesis.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
But I don't find your personal assurances to be convincing, nor do I believe your arguments advance your credibility.
Using the Scientific Method removes any need to worry about my credibility. We are not interested in me at all.We are examining a Hypothesis that says Darwin would explain the genealogy which claims 22 kinds of man are our ancient ancestors who live phenomenally and inordinately long existences beyond the imagination or capacity of men as far as we know. We are then listing all the science evidence that has gradually come to support the 1890 theory of Darwin as applied to the Bible. After stating that Hypothesis, we see evidence of hybridizing as Genesis claims, we see the two lines of ascent DID take place, like with Cain and Seth.We see that all other kinds of mankind went extinct, just like in the Flood Story. We see Noah has three sons that populated all the earth, even up to the mountain tops.This CORRESPONDS directly to the Three Racial Stock Theory of science. Now Science says that all men living today are genetically related to just one man who lived 40 thousand years ago, i.e., the Noah of the flood matches that. What does your teaching of Genesis really have, except the priority of some guy two centuries ago saying what he thought the Genealogy meant????
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
You claim to want the Bible to be literally true. But if you achieve this by the use of allegory, then what exactly have you accomplished?
I am NOT using allegory.I am showing a correpondence between the story of human evolution told by the scientists and the genealogy read off the Bible. I make only one assumption as an axiom, that the inordinately long lives attributed to what is presented as individuals really mean much longer durations, but that could not be so stated in the past because it was beyond belief in those tmes.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What is to explain? Are you kidding me, or are you just emulating a bag of hammers? What I'm asking you to explain is how you arrive at twenty two without counting groupings that represent relationships that are not even sub species. After all, you are trying to advance a correspondence with 22 species. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I am NOT using allegory. I am showing a correpondence between the story of human evolution told by the scientists and the genealogy read off the Bible Nonsense. You are using an allegory in which a flood of water corresponds to something that I cannot be bothered to learn going on with Noah's nervous system, which in turn is some part of the story of man's evolution. You can pretend to your self that your proposal is a direct cataloging of events described in Genesis. But in actuality, the correspondence you are pushing is pure allegory. Even if I accept that the lifetimes are not literally individual lives and that the Bible names representing species is non allegory, despite the holes in that proposition, the flood stuff is unquestionably pure allegory. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
This CORRESPONDS directly to the Three Racial Stock Theory of science. I've told you several times that science does not agree with your claim of three races. Why are you ignoring what science actually claims, all the while claiming to follow science? Here's the reference to the Coon and Garn article titled On the Number of Races of Mankind again: Just a moment... You might try reading it this time, even though it refutes your claims. That would be what scientists would do, not just ignore it as you seem inclined to do.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
We are not interested in me at all. Wrong. You are of primary interest here. My primary critique is of your thought processes and methods. Bad thought processes reach a correct result only by accident. It is secondary, and a much easier task to show that the accident did not occur, and you did not achieve a correct result.
Using the Scientific Method removes any need to worry about my credibility. Assuming you are following the process you describe in this thread, you are not using the scientific method. Coyote was on the right track, but he stops short of what I conclude, which is that what you are doing gives Apologetics a bad name.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
You are using an allegory in which a flood of water corresponds to something that I cannot be bothered to learn going on with Noah's nervous system, which in turn is some part of the story of man's evolution.
OH... I assumed you were referring to our present discussion of the genealogy and the one-to-one corrspondence with the paleontology reported in the latest book on that subject. In regard to the Flood story, I am reasoning that the Bible writer would have had no other alternative in telling the actual story we know that follows after the 22 evolutions but to use metaphor. They woulkd have had to "liken" the population explosion Out-of-Africa to a virtual Flood of peoplke who after a total extinction of Neanderthal man would have populated the whole earth up to the mountain tops. That the metaphor itself was an impossible report on the face of it, such an interpretation is warranted since it parallels the actual events. This view that the Flood was metaphor was also used by the scientist who discovered the we are all related to just one man who lived 40,000 years ago when Modern man actually did migrate around the world, Out-of-Africa: SCIENCE:Christopher Stringer and Peter Andrews proposes that modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens 200,000-150,000 years ago only in Africa and then some of them migrated into the rest of the Old World replacing all of the Neanderthals and other late archaic Homo sapiens beginning around 100,000 years ago. If this interpretation of the fossil record is correct, all people today share a relatively modern African ancestry. All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct. From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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I assumed you were referring to our present discussion of the genealogy and the one-to-one corrspondence with the paleontology reported in the latest book on that subject. So what happens when number 23 or 24 are found, or evidence emerges that what was once H. erectus is actually two separate species? At one time there was only 1 transitional species known. What makes you think the count will stop, or that the categories are even accurate to begin with?
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
KOFH; We are not interested in me at all. Nonuke:Wrong. You are of primary interest here. ? You don't know anything about me except what you read in my posts. I remind you again that the stated Hypothesis that the 22 names in the genealogy correspond to the 22 now extinct humans in our ascent Out-of-Africa. This Hypothesis has been followed by a list of Facts that support this since Darwin first suggested such possible thing could correspond to the Bible. What EXACTLY is it that you believe matters beyond that argument???And, why are YOU so wacky as to think that your point of view with zero support, except your interpretation is different???
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Using the Scientific Method removes any need to worry about my credibility. Assuming you are following the process you describe in this thread, you are not using the scientific method.
?How so? What I see here is you want to say I am wrong because my thinking does not meet your specifications somehow... which is mutual of course. I must conclude you are stranger to a logical and rational explantion if that explanation opposes your own views.Since that seems to be the case, it is your argument that my hypothesis has no support because I am a weak minded thinker regardless of the list of corrsponding science events. LOL
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
So what happens when number 23 or 24 are found, or evidence emerges that what was once H. erectus is actually two separate species? At one time there was only 1 transitional species known. What makes you think the count will stop, or that the categories are even accurate to begin with?
What happens whenever the Facts oppose ANY hypothesis??? I am interested in how hard head you people are right now when the Facts support everything I have been saying. The situation here and now is that the church interpretation of Genesis is wrong because of all these facts I have demonstrted, but that does not mean you have blinked an eye lid, but you remain staunchly either anti-bible or anti-evolution. You have asked me a question you need ask YOURSELF."What happens now, when YOU see that the very evolution of man matches what the Bible says," if you will accept it?
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3820 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
kofh: This CORRESPONDS directly to the Three Racial Stock Theory of science. coyote;I've told you several times that science does not agree with your claim of three races. And I have told YOU it does. Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
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