Morality and Subjectivity

No, there is no problem with the meaning of "subjective" and "objective". My point is that even if morality is subjective, so long as it is intersubjective we can meaningfully discuss it - and that permits arguments of this sort to work successfully.If morality is intersubjective then the statement "God would not perform an immoral act" refers to our intersubjective ideas of morality (or it is meaningless). Thus if it could be proven that were God to exist He must have performed an act that was immoral by those intersubjective standards we would have to conclude that God did not exist (or reject the premises - but that applies to any logical argument).In short it would be worse for your argument if morality were objective for then it would be possible to be wrong about it. Whereas if morality is intersubjective saying that we were wrong would be exactly like saying that the accepted definition of a word was wrong.

might?might?You don't have to know the creator of the universe in order to dispel any notion that there would be any 'mights' about your life changing drastically were you in fact to come to know him. Changing stratospherically is to put it mildly.Think of the sheer fun if nothing else (for the only way one can know him results thankfully in the 'negative' aspects of him never being made manifest. The day you get to know there is in fact a Hell (beyond all reasonable doubt) is the day you get to find out you are not going there){AbE} assuming the timing of the 'getting to know' falls on the correct side of the fenceEdited by iano, : No reason given.

I'm not sure what you mean by "meaningfully discuss it"--if it's not possible to be wrong or right. I guess it's meaningful in a pragmatic sense. Suppose some people got together and intersubjectively agreed that they were superior and ought to rule the world. This doesn't mean, I don't think, that they ought to rule the world necessarily.So if some people get together and decide that evolution is immoral due to animal pain, does this mean that evolution is in fact immoral?Surely not. So I don't quite get what you are saying.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

I'm not sure I'd call such a realization "fun."

Very interesting, rivetting, mind boggling, stupendous. Whatever.I had a mate ask me at the weekend "What is the Sun made of?" To be honest I wasn't sure but "thought it was gas". He said "does that mean I can stick my hand through it?" "In a manner of speaking I suppose so" I replied "but get out the teflon gloves"5000 million tonnes of matter 'burnt' per second. And you suppose meeting the person who made that 'might' change your life?Droll Robin. Very droll

I mentioned it somewhere else - christian pleading generally consists of needy pleading (God loves you and he wants you to love him - it's great really) and vague threats (but remember if you don't love him in time baaaaaaad things will happen).In some respects it's a low-rent version of Pascal's gambit and indeed the critism of such an approach is generally discussed when discussing Pascal's gambit. Edited by CK, : No reason given.Edited by CK, : fix db code.

Deleted. Insulting Robins intelligenceEdited by iano, : No reason given.

Pascal's gambit, when I read Pensees recently, is a bit opaque to me, but I gathered he was saying we should believe in God on the chance that he existed--which seems to me dishonorable. But I never got a chance to study it closely.There are other things in Pascal I like--when he talks about boredom for example. How human beings are either bored or worried. No lasting contentment.

That's ok. I'm used to it. Say what you want to say.

I was arguing something as if you were a fool and wouldn't be adequately be able to argue it yourself. As if I didn't know better.Sorry

So anyone can add to wiki - what like those people?

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You probably have purchased some sort of insurance--first, theft, car or personal liability--you name it. Insurance is a multibillion dollar business. But have you ever stopped to think that the whole business is built on the one word--MAYBE. I get my car insured. I'm not looking for an accident. I don't expect one. I'm going to try not to have one, but maybe I will, and it would be awfully nice to be covered. Hospitilizations? You don't expect to be sick, you're not planning to be sick, but maybe you will be, and boy, the hospital will take you to the cleaner if you're not ready.
To the person who finds the whole subject of Hell and judgment distasteful, and who refuses to believe it, even if Jesus Christ taught it, I ask the question: What about that little word "maybe"? Maybe there is a Hell.

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"Maybe" your car will have a wreck, and because of the little word "maybe" you'll spend hundreds of dollars on car insurance. And yet you'll walk around town without ETERNAL life insurance. You walk the street, cross the highways, in a world of crime and terrorism and potential accidents all over the place, yet you gamble with eternity! You are living one big risk 24 hours a day! It just doesn't make much sense, does it?

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Or are those not true christians....HELL - What if I don't believe in Hell? - ChristianAnswers.Net

Pascal’s Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) This is a pretty good resource on his position.As for the bored and contextment - I think it's more than likely he's right. Always something over the hill isn't there? Something good or something bad? and who knows?You know I'd love to chat more about nihilism and how you came to such a position - is there a suitable thread available? By chat, I really mean chat - not try and catch you out or anything like that. I'm just interested to know more.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Have you actually ever read what Robin has ever written?

That he tentatively identifies himself as a nihilist.Is that wrong Robin?Are you feeling frustrated again Iano? I'm certainly getting that "why don't those people listen/convert" vibe off you?Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Now I know you and me don't get on famously or anything CK, but I think any objective reading of these sentences could only bring to mind what is to be imagined of a particularily inept webdate message