Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Get To Know God (GTKG) 101
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 16 of 46 (215285)
06-08-2005 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by dsv
06-07-2005 9:39 AM


Step 1
Lists like redseal's are usually all I get for an answer aside from the one you mentioned where Christ is the bridge.
Unfortunately, specifics on what and how never come to light.
If nothing comes to light in the next few days we can discuss your path to discovery, which sounds like the path I'm on.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by dsv, posted 06-07-2005 9:39 AM dsv has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 46 (215677)
06-09-2005 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by redseal
06-07-2005 6:14 AM


Romans 2:14-16:
When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.
These verses do not say that human conscience reveals God. The context says that even people who do not know God naturally have a sense of morality -- something that I have seen some fundamentalists deny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by redseal, posted 06-07-2005 6:14 AM redseal has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 18 of 46 (236590)
08-24-2005 6:52 PM


Model for Seeking God
Since no one cared to explain how we are to get to know God, I think we could use this thread as a place for iano to provide a model for seeking God.
iano writes:
From Atheism isn't a Belief Thread
First a model designed to collect evidence > then apply model > then evaluate evidence if it comes. That is the logical sequence. Discussion of evidence needs evidence to discuss. And to discuss both parties need to be party to the evidence.
I feel it is unreasonable for an atheist to be responsible for coming up with the model, since those who believe in God supposedly know where to look, etc.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by iano, posted 09-05-2006 3:25 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 19 of 46 (236597)
08-24-2005 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by purpledawn
06-05-2005 10:45 AM


Step 1
I believe step one is the one step that is consistent for just about everyone.
Step 1 is to have an open mind about whether or not God exists and and of what we can know about him.
If we approach the subject with preconceived ideas one way or the other, then those pre conceived ideas are likely going to form our conclusion.
I'll agree that having an open mind is not going to bring everyone to the same conclusion, but if one doesn't at least get to that point the answer is pretty much a given.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by purpledawn, posted 06-05-2005 10:45 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by purpledawn, posted 08-25-2005 6:31 AM GDR has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 20 of 46 (236694)
08-25-2005 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by GDR
08-24-2005 7:39 PM


Step 2
Step 2
One needs to be needy, have a hole to fill.
The question is, how are you supposed to search for a God that seems invisible -- one that you can’t physically see and touch or audibly hear?

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by GDR, posted 08-24-2005 7:39 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 08-25-2005 10:57 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 21 of 46 (236770)
08-25-2005 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by purpledawn
08-25-2005 6:31 AM


Re: Step 2
purpledawn writes:
One needs to be needy, have a hole to fill.
Or just have a desire to know what the truth is.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by purpledawn, posted 08-25-2005 6:31 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 46 (346625)
09-05-2006 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by purpledawn
06-05-2005 10:45 AM


GTKG: Tear down the wall!
PD writes:
what is the step by step mainstream process of getting to know the Christian God (GTKG)? Whether one is a believer or not.
An assumption for the purpose of this thread is that our world was created by a supreme being. The Creator. It doesn't assume that this being is the Christian God.
Quite simply---I dont believe that we find God. I believe that God finds us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by purpledawn, posted 06-05-2005 10:45 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by purpledawn, posted 09-05-2006 9:26 AM Phat has replied
 Message 25 by jar, posted 09-05-2006 11:29 AM Phat has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 23 of 46 (346633)
09-05-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
09-05-2006 8:41 AM


Re: GTKG: Tear down the wall!
quote:
Quite simply---I dont believe that we find God. I believe that God finds us.
And yet people spend more time hiding from God than not.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 8:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 9:29 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 46 (346635)
09-05-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by purpledawn
09-05-2006 9:26 AM


Re: GTKG: Tear down the wall!
quote:
And yet people spend more time hiding from God than not.
Maybe its because we feel under pressure to expand ourselves from our comfort zone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by purpledawn, posted 09-05-2006 9:26 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 46 (346648)
09-05-2006 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
09-05-2006 8:41 AM


Re: GTKG: Tear down the wall!
Then God is EVIL!

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 8:41 AM Phat has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 26 of 46 (346714)
09-05-2006 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by purpledawn
08-24-2005 6:52 PM


Re: Model for Seeking God
I think we could use this thread as a place for iano to provide a model for seeking God.
Thanks but no.
I feel it is unreasonable for an atheist to be responsible for coming up with the model, since those who believe in God supposedly know where to look, etc.
It is perfectly reasonable for an athiest to provided the model I think. For it is he who would have to find the model reasonable. I could say "ask God to reveal himself to you" but the athiest (or agnostic) would have to be the person to figure out for themselves that that was a reasonable element to incorporate in the model. They would have to arrive at that not only being an acceptable thing to do but also understand what it was that was being asked and on what basis it would be asked. Now if I could construct a model where that was a reasonable thing to do then so equally, could the athiest. If he could not, then me modelling it so would be rejected by the atheist - eliminating any 'advantage' I have. He would find the basis for the modelling unreasonable.
Even looking at GDR's step 1 shows the extent of the problem. "Have an open mind" Well, how does one ensure they have that? Can you go and buy a multimeter, plug yourself into in and get a reading as to open-mindedness? You cannot. If a person was, for example, to examine the consequences that would lead out of a successful search and then examine themselves personally to see whether they were willing to live with those consequences or not then they might be in a position to rely on their open mindedness.
As with a person calling themselves a Christian, calling oneself open minded does not mean one is in fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by purpledawn, posted 08-24-2005 6:52 PM purpledawn has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by iano, posted 09-05-2006 5:56 PM iano has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 27 of 46 (346733)
09-05-2006 4:27 PM


Brian's model
Take one
Apply repeatedly to
Continue until this appears
and tells you to stop.
There is an easier way to find God:
Brian.

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 28 of 46 (346768)
09-05-2006 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by iano
09-05-2006 3:25 PM


Re: Model for Seeking God
Okay, it looks at the argument for Jesus but does contain a number of relevant items to be considered by a God-searcher when he is designing a model of investigation.
The "play online" option is probably the quickest. Fast forward about a minute to miss the blurb
How do we Know Christianity is Right Out of All the Religions? - bethinking.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by iano, posted 09-05-2006 3:25 PM iano has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 29 of 46 (346807)
09-05-2006 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by dsv
06-05-2005 12:46 PM


Re: dsv's GTKG Step 1
dsv:
For me, GTKG Step 1 is giving up the preconceived concept of God -- understanding history and the literature and thinking that has gone into the creation of modern religion and realizing it is human. [...]
My God is not a person, a spirit, a wind, a cloud, "love" or any of the other concepts. My God is unknown.[....]
I don't believe any human book can explain it, nor have we reached a point at which we can understand it -- we may someday.
On the subject of human books, that's the thing that immediately appealed to me about the Tao Te Ching. The author leaves well enough alone. The book never defines Ultimate Reality. It starts off right away telling you that as soon as you invent a word for it, you are no longer talking about reality, but about your idea of it.
This puts everything that follows into proper persective. All words are limited.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by dsv, posted 06-05-2005 12:46 PM dsv has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by robinrohan, posted 09-05-2006 8:37 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 31 by jar, posted 09-05-2006 8:53 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 46 (346832)
09-05-2006 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Archer Opteryx
09-05-2006 7:13 PM


Re: dsv's GTKG Step 1
The book never defines Ultimate Reality. It starts off right away telling you that as soon as you invent a word for it, you are no longer talking about reality, but about your idea of it.
This doesn't make much sense to me. There's no other way to talk about something except by using one's "idea of it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-05-2006 7:13 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024