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Author Topic:   An Army of One
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 59 (346271)
09-03-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by BMG
09-03-2006 11:07 AM


my 2bits (emailed earlier)
The problem is not defending "evolution" but in defending a science based worldview, defending a worldview based on accumulation of evidence and observations,
against one based solely on belief, one that sooner or later denies evidence. One that doesn't care about pesky things like facts or evidence.
There is a very low probability of making a dent, especially on the newly converted
Set some ground rules or refuse to participate. No ganging up. No disparaging comments.
Preface arguments with "you can believe what you want, but what is the evidence"
One place to start is the real world: start simple -- going out a door is not based on a belief in an afterlife or creation but in the observation of the door and the knowledge from past experience of how it works, including how you can slam your hand in the jam.
What is outside in the world? -- according to the beliefs this is the result of the creation, so shouldn't that provide corroborating evidence for the belief -- should not the study of "life, the universe, everything" (D.N.Adams) be a study of the actual physical creation?
IF NOT WHY NOT?
The other thing to remember is that evidence FOR a {concept\hypothesis\belief} is not sufficient to rule out other possibilities -- the critical element in judging the validity of a {concept\hypothesis\belief} is whether evidence needs to be DENIED to continue to accept the {concept\hypothesis\belief}. Denial that the earth is old or that speciation happens, for instance, or denial that evolution occurs -- regularly.
Denial of evidence that falsifies a {concept\hypothesis\belief} does not make the {concept\hypothesis\belief} any more factual or valid.
There is plenty of observation evidence that can be used to explain that the earth is flat, at the center of the universe, and that everything orbits the earth.
Another avenue of defense is divide the opposition: why aren't all christians unanimous in their beliefs and interpretations? Why have so many different kinds of christianity evolved? Why don't all christians agree on the age of the earth for example?
Invite your brother to participate at EvC if he thinks he has any real argument.
... pastor at the Saddleback Church was the author of the Purpose-Driven Life, Rick Warren.
Talk to your brother (and your parents) about what CULTS are and whether you tell if this is one.
See
The Purpose Driven Life - Wikipedia
Cult - Wikipedia
... how better to defend myself against such barrages of "holy-understanding".
Another approach is to not say anything. Just smile.
How much longer do you need to be there eh? Or do you live at home while going to college?
I wish you luck.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by BMG, posted 09-03-2006 11:07 AM BMG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by BMG, posted 09-03-2006 6:20 PM RAZD has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 14 of 59 (346272)
09-03-2006 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by BMG
09-03-2006 3:20 PM


Re: An approach??
Good point. Here's the problem; facts, reason, logic, critical thinking is practically shunned by my family when it comes to the possibility of the supernatural.
This may seem strange, but it is an outgrowth of a belief based world view -- there is no need for facts, they don't need them for belief and thus don't see that facts have any value. They don't understand them.
It's also part of the perceptions of reality problem.
You might ask your brother why he converted -- what fact led him to change his thinking -- but don't expect a logical answer.
I'd be more worried that this "new" church shows signs of being a cult.
Enjoy.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by BMG, posted 09-03-2006 3:20 PM BMG has not replied

  
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