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Author | Topic: Who Made God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Pressie writes: Agreed! You really should read more than one book. Your illiteracy is not a good ad for the religion you believe in.![]() It just seems as if I read the Bible. I really dont study it all that often, though I do believe that when I received the Holy Spirit the very Word went into me. Sounds crazy, I know. ![]() But I am also reading the following books at the moment:
13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened In BenghaziHosoi: My Life as a Skateboarder Junkie Inmate Pastor True Notebooks: A Writer's Year at Juvenile Hall Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Oh, Pressie!
![]() Original Cantina Scene - A New Hope Point being that if the collective imagination of humanity leans toward a consensus, it could well be that we have actualized a possibility through our collective imagination. Feel Me?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Faith writes: They will argue that they can since determination to them is based on the likelihood (or chance) that they are right. Of course, theories are always and forever being revised. Our secular humanist friends here at EvC collectively feel more comfortable with scientific and supportable theories vs. what they would consider empty beliefs. But then they have not yet met Jesus.
I believe the scientific view is that you can't make a judgment based on an absence of evidence. Tanypteryx writes: To me, the next question is this: Can something exist that is not evident? What is the difference between romance, cultural mythos, and legends? The absence of evidence is a fact. You have never presented convincing evidence for any of your fantasies.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Dredge, addressing jar writes: Do you believe that Jesus is the Third Person of the Trinity, that he died on the cross for our sins and that he was bodily resurrected to life three days later? Theodoric writes: Not only do I not believe this, but the whole concept is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Define what any of this actually means first. God is the Creator of all seen and unseen. As jar astutely points out, GOD, if GOD exists, is likely, unlike anything we humans could imagine. Whether or not God loves us is discussed in scripture. Progressive revelation has the "God Character" evolving throughout the Bible. jar argues that the authors, editors, and redactors were likely discussing different Gods, but jar presupposes that God(Not GOD--Note) is a creation of the human mind. Thus concludes that the Bible has many different Gods as described. I would argue that it is all the same God being described differently by humans of different eras and cultures and that the Bible thus has progressive revelation as to the character of God...lastly described through the character of the man Christ Jesus. Some argue that Jesus as an actual character never existed, but others disagree with this assessment and claim that the jury is still out. The Holy Spirit, unique in that it(He) remains on the earth as evidence of Gods presence. It's not so much a matter of evidence being needed. Its the bigger question of how would you respond to such a God if such a God were in fact real? Which also hints at why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is such a big deal. But of course, I speak from a believers perspective. Comments?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I agree. God expects us to grow. We cant forever be an ignorant bunch of backwoods Bible Thumpers.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Theodoric, addressing Faith writes: And God would likely understand your emotional reaction, as well as your refusal to believe. I reject your concept of a god totally and completely. If your god existed, I would tell him to fuck himself for all of the misery he has caused. Let me read the link you gave her to see if I get a different take on it.
Theodoric writes: You seem to insist that I express myself in my own words, which is what I usually do here, but you then usually get angry and accuse me of being just like the rest of them. You are quick to judge. I recall that you found some story about the human foible and dishonesty ofRavi Zacharias, but I noted that you seemed to relish finding one major fault (if it was even true) about him and then judging him accordingly. I think a lot of us atheists have similar stories of our experiences with theists and particularly fundies. We see it here at EVC all the time. Phat does not see it, but he is no different than all the other fundies.Tangle, replying to me writes: You believe in magic? FFS Phat...no way, surely?Theodoric, following up on Tangles comment writes: He has to if he believes in a god. Let's define magic.
Google Dictionary writes: And Note that I can't influence what God is going to do, nor should I even want to. He can handle His job quite adequately. noun Magic--the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces. ... That last definition fits my feelings regarding belief in general. I could rightly be accused of not only having confirmation bias in regards to every prayer I have had answered and every amazing event that I have witnessed but in a way, it's almost like a verification bias. The evidence which I will accept is not evidence that can be objectively replicated on demand for the Randi committee of paranormal claims. Theodoric seems to me to be the puny human ant on the pale blue dot, shaking his fist at the sky. Granted he loves and embraces evidence...verified only through social consensus and agreement. But as to the possibility that a supernatural Being could exist? Fuck Him! (Theodoric would say)
Mysterious tricks, such as making things disappear and appear again, performed as entertainment. illusion prestidigitation deception trickery juggling jiggery-pokery a quality that makes something seem removed from everyday life, especially in a way that gives delight.
Something that has a delightfully unusual quality. Sorcery witchcraft wizardry necromancy enchantment spell working incantation the supernatural occultism the occult black magic the black arts devilry divination malediction voodoo hoodoo used in magic or working by magic; having or having supernatural powers. Very effective in producing results, especially desired ones. Wonderful; exciting. Fascinating, captivating tremendous phenomenal sensational heavenly gorgeous dreamy grand fabulous fab fabby fantabulous supercalifragilisticexpialidocious awesome, mind-blowing divine goodly move, change or create by or as if by magic. ringo writes: Sez you. There could be a God who was not made up by humans and who has no desire whatsoever to communicate with us. That possibility and the possibility of no God at all are more evident than your gregarious God.![]() Theodoric writes: As well as their own preconceived bias! So You got nothing. Everything you typed means nothing. Hard to believe in something that cannot be described concretely and seemingly everyone has their own opinion.![]() Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Do you think that *we* are here for no purpose? Just answer the question.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
ringo writes: And this gets back to our old argument about how evidence is defined. You used to irately ask me how I had the gall to make up my own definition, so I'll elaborate here:
If something is not evident, how can you know whether it exists or not?" Google Dictionary writes: noun evidence1) the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. 2)information given personally, drawn from a document, or in the form of material objects, tending or used to establish facts in a legal investigation or admissible as testimony in court. proof confirmation verification substantiation corroboration affirmation authentication attestation documentation support for backing for reinforcement for grounds for testimony statement sworn statement attestation declaration avowal plea submission claim contention charge allegation deposition representation affidavit asseveration averment signs or indications of something. signs indications pointers marks traces suggestions hints manifestation verb verb evidence 3rd person present evidences past tense evidenced past participle evidenced gerund or present participle evidencing be or show evidence of. indicate show reveal be evidence of display exhibit manifest denote evince signify testify to attest to verify confirm prove substantiate endorse back up support bear out give credence to Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
jar writes: So one side says that God exists and that it is God Who determines the ultimate purpose. The other side (jars side) claims that humans create their own purpose. They create their own gods. They are the arbitrators of reality. We are here for whatever purpose the individual creates.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
jar writes: As a Christian, do you deny that Jesus Christ is the arbitrator of reality? Your answer will provide further insight into your belief. No one is the arbitrator of reality, reality simply is what it is. No one decides what is reality rather reality imposes itself regardless of anyone's beliefs, desires or fantasies.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
ringo writes: So are you saying that humanity has to agree before it can be called evidence?
If everybody doesn't see it, it isn't evidence. Heb 11:1-2 writes: But of course that is a Dusty old book compiled by a Brazilian authors, editors, and redactors.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.NKJV ![]() quote:But Stephen Hawking is Dead and had a great mind but nobody. The Universe also has a great mind. Every knee shall bow someday...either willingly or unwillingly. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
And you both believe that humans made God up and continue to do so. We can safely throw you in this Club over here. Or can we? jar claims to be a believer. Tangle? Just a chap who fishes for a livelihood.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I'll try and add a link to the transcript when I get a few minutes later today.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile |
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Theo The Great writes: It means that through Him, all things were created. Not through a dead genius. At best, Hawking was an intelligent ant. Jesus Was, Is, and always Will Be, for those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life. I've never checked the list myself.
Arbitrator of reality? WTF does that even mean?Tangle writes: I think he just likes the patterns and noises the words make in his head. He's obviously slightly off his trolley at the moment, probably spending a lot of time listening to mad pastor videos that he's now trying to ape.
Cute that you use the word "Ape." Animals, by nature, have instincts. They do not have a conscious self awareness nor an intuition. Only humans have these qualities. The GoE Story is quite likely not literally true. If the Bible was literal in the sense of Great Floods (no evidence for one) Adam & Eve and the talking snake Danial and the Great Fish, etc...then all of life as we know it would become an untrustworthy, enchanted and magical land of demons, goblins, talking snakes, literal Angels and literal fallen angels...or demons. Thus, rational Christians such as myself have assumed the stories to be metaphorical and yet actual in a metaphorical sense. Humans are the story on this planet, despite our egotistical awareness of and misuse of such a fact. GOD, the Creator of all seen and unseen throughout not only a universe but a potential multiverse reality of as yet unknown matters, ideas, concepts, and facts, did in fact desire to connect with the humans here on earth at one preordained and foreknown point in time (as we know it). The book (or more appropriately, books, Canons, and written beliefs supporting the same general flow) was intended to be the explanation for humanity Of this eternal Communion through the Third Person of the Trinity presented to and introduced to consensual understanding at a given point in time. It was foreknown that He would die, killed by the very humans He was trying to reach. It was foreknown that there would be a Spiritual War of sorts between Gods perfect Communion offered to us to accept and that of a rogue free willed fallen angel who was also foreknown to have chosen independence from said Creator. Believe it or not. But don't assume that today's current crop of educated Free Willed Humans* who have chosen to reject Jesus Christ (Gods Human Character) and dismiss the stories as descriptions of a cruel and developing God of human imagination in one of many storybooks designed in the minds of humans. For the fact is that (some) humans by nature have chosen to dismiss the stories as old Legends and Cultural Mythos. And the reason is as simple as the story reveals it to be. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
You call it word salad because you are not a believer. Your brain is not wired to take leaps of faith. Thus to you, I may as well be saying
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. ![]() Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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