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Author Topic:   Climate Change is Real
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 4024
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 46 of 49 (923183)
05-31-2025 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Percy
05-18-2025 7:26 AM


Re: Minnesota as a Refuge From Climate Change? Three Wildfires Show Otherwise
the outbreak of Spruce Bud Worms killing off vast amounts of Balsam Fir.
ChatGPT, why is this invasive species in northern Minnesota?
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 05-18-2025 7:26 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 06-01-2025 10:55 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23682
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 47 of 49 (923191)
06-01-2025 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Minnemooseus
05-31-2025 5:11 PM


Re: Minnesota as a Refuge From Climate Change? Three Wildfires Show Otherwise
Minnemooseus writes in Message 46:
the outbreak of Spruce Bud Worms killing off vast amounts of Balsam Fir.
ChatGPT, why is this invasive species in northern Minnesota?
ChatGPT's response:
The spruce budworm (Choristoneura fumiferana) is not an invasive species in northern Minnesota or anywhere in eastern North America. It is a native insect, well-established for thousands of years across the boreal forests of the U.S. and Canada, particularly where balsam fir and white spruce dominate.
Key points:
  • Native range: The eastern spruce budworm is native to the northeastern U.S., the Great Lakes region (including Minnesota), and much of eastern and central Canada.
    Natural outbreaks: Periodic outbreaks (every ~30–40 years) are part of the insect’s natural population cycle. These outbreaks can last for a decade or more in a given region, especially where mature balsam fir is abundant.
    Ecological role: Though destructive during outbreaks, spruce budworms are part of the natural disturbance regime of boreal and mixed forests. They help create openings in the canopy, promoting forest regeneration and biodiversity over time.
    Invasive confusion: The confusion sometimes arises because of the severity of damage—entire landscapes turning brown due to defoliation—which looks like an invasive outbreak. But this is a native species going through a natural boom in population.
In short: the spruce budworm is nasty, but it's homegrown. The current outbreak of spruce budworms in northern Minnesota, particularly affecting balsam firs, is primarily due to the natural population cycles of the eastern spruce budworm (Choristoneura fumiferana), a native insect species. These outbreaks typically occur every 25 to 40 years in Minnesota and can last between 6 to 10 years in a given area .
Several factors contribute to the severity of these outbreaks:
  • Forest Composition: The prevalence of mature balsam fir stands provides an abundant food source for the budworms.
  • Natural Predators and Pathogens: While natural predators and diseases usually help control budworm populations, during outbreak periods, these controls are often insufficient to prevent widespread defoliation.
  • Environmental Stressors: Additional stressors, such as drought, can exacerbate the impact of budworm feeding, leading to increased tree mortality.
The current outbreak has been particularly severe in areas like the Superior National Forest and the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, with significant defoliation observed over vast areas.
Effective management strategies include promoting forest diversity and reducing the dominance of susceptible species like balsam fir. This can help mitigate the impact of future outbreaks and promote overall forest health.
Disclaimer: ChatGPT has been known to be wrong.
--Percy

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 Message 46 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-31-2025 5:11 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23682
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 48 of 49 (925689)
04-24-2026 7:43 AM


Atlantic Conveyor Belt Could Collapse Sooner Rather Than Later
The Atlantic Conveyor Belt delivers trillions of gallon of warm water to the North Atlantic and is responsible for Northern Europe's temperate climate. It's collapse could cause temperatures to plummet across a broad swatch of this region, which includes these prominent examples: England, Norway, Belgium and Germany. God only knows what becomes of Iceland, and in a good-news/bad-news kind of way, the trend in Greenland returns to be toward a frozen wasteland buried under miles of ice rather than toward an ever greening and hospitable new land.
Climate change is, of course, responsible for this looming threat, and the big question is why it has been getting less and less attention. The reason is explained in the opening the Guardian article A catastrophic climate event is upon us. Here is why you’ve heard so little about it:
The Guardian:
The poor and middle pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the very rich pay lawyers – and the ultra-rich pay politicians. It’s not an original remark, but it bears repeating until everyone has heard it. The more money billionaires accumulate, the greater their control of the political system – which means they pay less tax, which means they accumulate more, which means their control intensifies.
They reshape the world to suit their demands. One of the symptoms of the pathology known as “billionaire brain” is an inability to see beyond their own short-term gain. They would sack the planet for a few more stones on the pointless mountain of wealth. And we can see it happening. Last week delivered the biggest news of the year so far, perhaps the biggest news of the century. But partly because billionaires own most of the media, most people never heard it. We might find ourselves committed to a civilisation-ending event before we even learn that such a thing is possible.
To summarize, the super-rich buy the politicians (either by buying them directly or by putting money into the campaigns of sympathetic politicians) who make the decisions about what to do about climate change, which so far isn't so very different from doing nothing. If the super-rich need a think tank to support their view that the consequences of climate change will be minimal then they buy that, too. The world is heading for civilization-ending catastrophe while the super-rich rearrange the deck chairs among themselves.
Here's another article making congruent points: Ocean current ‘collapse’ could trigger ‘profound cooling’ in northern Europe – even with global warming
And here's a recent technical paper that is one of those underpinning the layperson articles: European Temperature Extremes Under Different AMOC Scenarios in the Community Earth System Model
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-24-2026 9:32 AM Percy has seen this message but chosen not to reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2766
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 49 of 49 (925691)
04-24-2026 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Percy
04-24-2026 7:43 AM


Re: Atlantic Conveyor Belt Could Collapse Sooner Rather Than Later
Biden was just in office when the national debt went up almost ten trillion dollars in one or a few years.
The spending was supposed to prepare us for another virus emergency.
(But it also was an opportunity to fund solar panels and such)
There was no big building infrastructure-boom funding plan to prepare for a future virus, where social distancing and living quarter-isolation would be available for the elderly, the sick, and the homeless.
Everything is still woefully underdeveloped and butt-to-butt crowded.
It is not about the rich, rather it is simply because it is human nature to wait for a crisis before acting. Look at all the wasted energy we burn by shipping light-seeet-crude out while having heavy crude oil shipped because we are too lousy to build refineries. Look at the waste of energy the rich east and west coast cause by not supporting pipelines from the oil producing sections of the same United States. Is it the wealth of California that causes such environmentally hazardous waste of energy by requiring shipping via sea as opposed to more effective and efficient pipeline infrastructure?
I don't think the California people lack proper planning due to their wealth causing the lack of concern for everyone else on the planet. I think there is rather a basic human condition to just ignore the likely future scenarios and to simply worry about the path of least resistance in the here and now. Live for the present, the future is just pointless vanity...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 04-24-2026 7:43 AM Percy has seen this message but chosen not to reply

  
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