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Author Topic:   How can we regulate guns ... ?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 886 of 955 (688563)
01-23-2013 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by xongsmith
01-23-2013 2:18 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
I dunno about that map on the right...
40% Romney is light pink while 60% Obama is blue. How did they decide which color to make the square when it could have been either one? It looks like they chose that based on where the gun violence was in order to make the pic more convincing.

This message is a reply to:
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3793 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 887 of 955 (688566)
01-23-2013 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 879 by ICANT
01-23-2013 12:43 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
ICANT writes:
quote:
In fact, more than half the arrestees say it is easy to obtain guns illegally," the report states. Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it.
When asked if they were stupid enough to confess to an additional crime, only 5% said that they were.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 888 of 955 (688568)
01-23-2013 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by xongsmith
01-23-2013 2:18 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
I would only note that in the areas of high gun death it's no wonder the people living there want to stop it. If it doesn't happen in your backyard, well, that's how life goes. Out of sight, out of mind, so to speak.
This picture is rather damning for the knee-jerk liberals
Higher density urban regions do tend to have more Democrats, and they also tend to have higher gun violence. I really doubt that those perpetrating crimes using guns are much of a voting block for either the Dems or Repubs.
So Dems do "experience" more gun violence than Repubs. I think that would be a fair generalization. I would hardly call that a knee-jerk reaction since it has been an ongoing problem for quite some time.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 889 of 955 (688571)
01-23-2013 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by xongsmith
01-23-2013 2:18 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
So it seems that high levels of gun crime make people more likely to vote for the party that wants to curb gun crime.
Either that, or correlation is not causation.
But I guess either way, the maps, if accurate, do suggest that Democrats are more likely to be shot than Republicans. Maybe that's why Republicans are so much in favor of guns --- because they're more likely to take out Democrats.
This would be somewhat shortsighted. A statistical tendency is not a law of nature. Republicans can get shot too.
But the most peculiar thing is his conclusion. His map seems to suggest (though it does not completely prove) that Democrats are statistically more likely to be victims of gun violence. Well, if we've learned one thing from conservatives over these past few weeks, it's that the solution to gun violence is more guns. So why is he demanding that we "ban democrats from owning guns"? - when according to everything the right-wing has told us the solution would be to give them more guns?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 890 of 955 (688573)
01-23-2013 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 883 by Taq
01-23-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
So you have no answer to the question of how many guns used in crimes come from gun shows; and your solution of figuring out who owns what gun does nothing to actually stem gun violenceit just attempts to pass off/share culpability.
Don't we want gun-control policies to at least have some sort of meaningful impact?
You close the 'gun-show loophole'; so what? What does it accomplish?
You figure out who owned the gun used to kill the young gang-banger; so what? What does it matter?
Where is the real difference that your policies are supposed to be making?

Love your enemies!

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 891 of 955 (688582)
01-23-2013 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by xongsmith
01-23-2013 2:18 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
But also, thinking it over, this is likely a crock. What are the chances that the FBI would first decide to crudely divide gun violence into "high" and "low" and then conveniently color the areas of low gun violence red and the areas of high gun violence blue?
What is the actual source of this map? Can anyone link to it?
Here's another map.
And here's some statistical correlations:
Story here, if you want to dig further.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22607
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 892 of 955 (688583)
01-23-2013 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by xongsmith
01-23-2013 2:18 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
I don't think that map on the left labeled FBI Statistics for Gun Violence is worth much. I looked at my own state and the ones on the east and west. In that map these states have a great deal of blue, meaning a high incidence of gun violence, but at the actual FBI website (Murder in the US 2011) they say that in 2011 there were a total of 22 firearm murders in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire. California has less blue and yet had 1220 firearm murders, so something definitely doesn't add up. The number of murders is 50 times greater, yet California's population density is only around four times as great. California had 3.2 murders per 100,000 people, New Hampshire had 0.5. Something is way amiss.
I also noticed that southern New Jersey, which is mostly rural, has a high incidence rate, while northern Jersey, which includes Newark, has a low rate - doesn't seem possible.
Either that map was created using very questionable criteria in order to give a misleading picture, or it's just made up.
--Percy

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 893 of 955 (688586)
01-23-2013 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 892 by Percy
01-23-2013 6:26 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
Either that map was created using very questionable criteria in order to give a misleading picture, or it's just made up.
I'm guessing that someone just took a county by county map of votes in some election and then mislabeled it. It certainly doesn't square with figures from any reliable source, and it would explain why it's colored red and blue.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 894 of 955 (688594)
01-23-2013 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 891 by Dr Adequate
01-23-2013 6:25 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
Look at northern MN and WI. They are supposedly high gun violence. What a crock. You can't get any more rural. They are very democratic and progressive, but no high gun violence.
Hibbing, MN and Ashland WI are not areas of violence of any kind.
More rightwing lies and propaganda. Nothing more.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-23-2013 6:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 895 of 955 (688611)
01-23-2013 9:33 PM


Map
To whoever is interested,
You can find an interactive map Here.
You can click on a state and it will give the number of:
The total homicides and percent involving firearms.
Murders 2011
Murders 2010
Robberies
Aggravated assault
Alabama and Florida has no information.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 896 of 955 (688615)
01-23-2013 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 864 by RAZD
01-22-2013 2:52 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #2: Gun Registration
TIME TO GET BACK TO THE TOPIC -- HOW WE CAN REGULATE GUNS.
See Message 801, Message 809, and Message 864
The rest of this discussion should be on the other thread
Jeers will be handed out for further off topic posts
Thanks

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 937 by RAZD, posted 01-30-2013 10:16 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 897 of 955 (688617)
01-23-2013 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 890 by Jon
01-23-2013 5:08 PM


Re: Problem Solving at its Best -- proposal #1: FOIDs
You figure out who owned the gun used to kill the young gang-banger; so what? What does it matter?
That person is an accessory to the crime.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 898 of 955 (688618)
01-23-2013 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 884 by xongsmith
01-23-2013 2:18 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
I was right.
The map on the left is actually a map of how each county voted in 2004.
See?
I guess there are some ideologies that can only be supported by lying. I'm glad I don't have one of those. Also that I know the difference between "incidents" and "incidence".
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 901 by xongsmith, posted 01-24-2013 1:23 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 364 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 899 of 955 (688622)
01-23-2013 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 886 by New Cat's Eye
01-23-2013 2:56 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
I dunno about that map on the right...
40% Romney is light pink while 60% Obama is blue. How did they decide which color to make the square when it could have been either one?
No, that one's OK. The legend says that the colors represent the top candidate's share of the vote, so a county is only light pink if Romney won it with 40%, Obama getting even less. If it was Romney 40%, Obama 60% it would be medium blue.
It's the map on the left that's the problem, 'cos of having nothing at all to do with gun crime.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 900 of 955 (688628)
01-24-2013 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 899 by Dr Adequate
01-23-2013 11:36 PM


Re: 2-d covariance math says....wow!!
No, that one's OK. The legend says that the colors represent the top candidate's share of the vote, so a county is only light pink if Romney won it with 40%
It's 'OK' if a county vote percentage actually meant something absent some indication of the county's population. Romney did not actually win the popular vote despite the overall pink tinge of the map.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
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