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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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NoNukes writes:
Try any Supreme Court decision that interprets "a well regulated milita" as "every hillbilly with a trigger-finger".
Why don't you cite a relevant Supreme Court decision? NoNukes writes:
If you're suggesting that I don't have a doctrinaire pick-a-side-and-stick-to-it opinion, you're right.
I am suggesting that you don't have either an opinion or an understanding.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Another analogy would be drugs. As long as there's a demand, you'll never get rid of them. In Canada, for example, there is relatively little demand for guns, so there are fewer guns and less gun violence.
It's a bit like the nuclear genie. Getting rid of nuclear weapons will likely never happen. I feel that the chances are even less likely with guns.
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Phat Member Posts: 18694 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
ringo writes: That's why I always called you a contrarian! You just like the sport of argumentation, it appears. The honesty is refreshing... If you're suggesting that I don't have a doctrinaire pick-a-side-and-stick-to-it opinion, you're right. I eagerly await the contrary response to this post...Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Try googling "two Jews, three opinions".
That's why I always called you a contrarian! You just like the sport of argumentation, it appears. The honesty is refreshing...
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Try any Supreme Court decision that interprets "a well regulated milita" as "every hillbilly with a trigger-finger". But the 2nd doesn't say that the right of the militia shall not be infringed, it says that the right of the people shall not be infringed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New cat's Eye writes:
Why does it mention militia at all if it doesn't mean "the people" who are members of the militia?
But the 2nd doesn't say that the right of the militia shall not be infringed, it says that the right of the people shall not be infringed.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Why does it mention militia at all if it doesn't mean "the people" who are members of the militia? I'm not exactly sure, but the phrasing was recycled and then chopped up and re-written and it's a bit of a mess. The prefatory clause is unnecessary and seems to be included as, like, an FYI or something. I dunno, it's weird. But it doesn't matter, when the Constitution refers to "the people" it refers to all individuals and not some subset of them. For reference, here's what the Virginia Declaration of Rights had to say:
quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
But that isn't the reality today. You do have a standing army. You're not defended by a bunch of Minutemen who keep their muskets hanging over the fireplace. It doesn't make sense to interpret the Constitution in terms of a myth.
For reference, here's what the Virginia Declaration of Rights had to say:
quote:
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It doesn't matter, when the Constitution refers to "the people" it refers to all individuals and not some subset of them.
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ringo Member (Idle past 715 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
That seems like a phony self-serving distinction. The wording strongly suggests that it was referring to a subset.
It doesn't matter, when the Constitution refers to "the people" it refers to all individuals and not some subset of them.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
That seems like a phony self-serving distinction. I didn't make it up:
quote: The wording strongly suggests that it was referring to a subset. Turns out you don't know what you're talking about.
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Modulous Member (Idle past 287 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Really? How huge is it? Around 1- in-5 to 1-in-3 sales are done in such a way that avoids background checks as a requirement.
Are the "common sense" gun control measures only at the federal level? What are they, explicitly? What would the legislation look like? Firearm Owners Protection Act is a Federal law, right? The one that bans the sale of automatic weapons, with exceptions surrounding grandfathered weapons?
What are the top five common sense gun control measures that will have the biggest impact on the goals that are trying to be achieved? Good question. Here's my attempt to an answer: 1) Ban handguns2) Band semi-automatic weapons 3) Ban weapons capable of holding more than four rounds 4) Require a licence to hold a firearm. The licence can be free to obtain - but does require meeting various standards such as age, the passing of a short safety examination and possibly a practical test (like having a car). Make showing the licence a requirement for the purchasing of a firearm, and any purchase requires the seller to advise some local authority which licence was used to purchase - name address etc etc. 5) Require insurance for owning a weapon to cover expenses to property and payment of injury claims that may occur as a result of accidents, negligence or deliberate misuse of a weapon. If you are able to afford it, you can become self-insured - perhaps with a fund under a third party's control held in reserve. Number 4 would also include reasons to lose the licence: Committing certain offences for example. Possibly include a points system for more minor offenses - once a certain number of points are on your licence, you lose the licence. Also a path for reacquiring a lost licence should be included. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Piss off, there are natural rights. Sure, when you want to argue about guns, then there are natural gun rights. At other times, apparently, there were not. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Try any Supreme Court decision that interprets "a well regulated milita" as "every hillbilly with a trigger-finger". It turns out, that your supposition about the state of US law is wrong. Yes, it is true that DC v. Heller did say that the 2nd amendment bestows a personal right to others including hillbillies, but the same decision also held that states do have the right to pass and enforce gun control laws. From the opinion in DC v Heller:
quote: I'll note that the Supreme Court specifically mentioned laws targeting the mentally ill.
If you're suggesting that I don't have a doctrinaire pick-a-side-and-stick-to-it opinion, you're right. I'm suggesting that a post of a BS opinion that you won't defend probably is not worth the paper it is printed on. In this case, it seems that you do have an opinion, which is a good thing. However, your opinion can easily be shown not to reflect reality. The Supreme Court has not, in fact, rendered any decision that make it impossible to prevent violently insane people from obtaining guns, provided due process is provided. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Pressie Member (Idle past 278 days) Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Read some of this. I can buy a Kalashnikov with 10 loaded cartriges for 10 bucks at the Komatipoort border post.
The crime rate in my country is one of the highest in the world. Guns don't kill people. People with access to those guns do it. You Amcans should reallly look at those gun laws.
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