Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse?

Cuba's doctors are doctors who want to be doctors. They have to really want to, since they only make about $400 a month. Pesos.I've heard though, they are very good doctors. However the large majority would do just about anything to get to the US and make money for their work. As it is, doctors in Cuba trade their skills for food, and other things they might need. So they've definitely found a way to profit somehow, even in a system where the doctor and the guy that collects the garbage make just about the same amount per month.So I don't know that I'd prefer a system that doesn't pay doctors high wages or one in which doctors are "making money".- Oni

But it is not an either or proposition.Europe seems to be doing a good job of having motivated doctors and a good total medical system. Perfect? No, nothing is. But seemingly much better than US or Cuban models.

Another profession, retirement, a new black market.If you tried to tell me that I couldn't pay my doctor more than a certain amount of money to see him, and that threatened my ability to see him, then I'd go the route of paying him cash under the table in secret. Primary care physician salaries are somewhat higher here in the U.S., but not by a ridiculous amount. Its the orthopedic surgeons who are commanding ridiculous salaries, which throws the average out of whack, but that shit is pretty hardcore so I'm not sure where I stand on that.

But this is all just something in your fantasy isn't it. No one has proposed any such thing. That is something dictated by insurance rules, not the ACA. The government has nothing to do with who you can see. Even insurance companies are not allowed to tell you who you can see. They can have different deductibles and amount they pay, but they can not tell you who you have to see. For example, my eye doctor was out of our network so we took the lower benefits and paid the rest ourselves.(Dropped it this year since it wasn't worth it.) Well since the first two parts of your comment are not true or remotely realistic, then final conclusion is just as ridiculous.Before you criticize the US medical system and the ACA you probably should do some research as to what it really is like. You are developing ridiculous scenarios that have not even been proposed.FYI, here are the latest figures on Physician compensation SourceI think a lot of people would think some of these figures are ridiculous and detrimental to total health care in this country.I can guarantee you that a family medicine doc, working at a community health center barely gets on to this chart.

Sure they did: Message 244

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Take excess profits out of the picture and you end up with doctors that want to doctor.

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Curiously I think that would be an improvement.

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How do you take excess profits out of the picture without limiting how much they can be paid?Well, I suppose you could increase their operating costs, but I don't think that's what RAZD was talking about.

Do you really think the lions share of profits go to doctors salaries?You really need to learn some basic economics if you want discuss these things meaningfully.US medical economics does not function like your bizarre fantasy of how it does.

That's fine, you can stop discussing this with me whenever you want.

CS writes: In the time that I have been on EvC, CS has struck me as a very bizarre person. There is nothing wrong with being bizarre. But....oh...i fear for you even more than Faith or Dawn Bertot. Take care man!

Was actually hoping you would take the initiative to learn something about the subject so we could have a meaningful conversation. But seems you cannot get past the rightwing talking points. Talking points that have no basis in reality.

Nope.

Then maybe I don't want that doctor.

Well in the interest of moving the conversation forward, I'd like to attempt to pick up where (I think) Theodoric was leaving off.

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How do you take excess profits out of the picture without limiting how much they can be paid?

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There's a lot that goes into how a doctor gets paid today, they are Fee for service, Capitation, and Salary. The issue you talk about has been discussed and, while not perfected, is more robust than many people give it credit for. I don't remember all the specifics, but I learned this from a video I came across this video a while back and I think it pertains heavily to what you're asking. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after watching the video, CS. https://www.khanacademy.org/.....are-system/v/paying-doctorsedit: typosEdited by Whaitere, : No reason given.Edited by Whaitere, : No reason given.Edited by Whaitere, : I'm terrible at this apparentlyEdited by Whaitere, : really terrible.Edited by Whaitere, : No reason given.

Well, they're still paid very high wages. Their average, from what I found online, is over 100K. I don't think there's much of a difference from what motivates US doctors in Europe.Cuban doctors, who get $400 a month - those are more of what I though RAZD was refering to. I don't think the European model is that much better than the US model. In fact, I would argue ours is better. What hurts us, given the system we have, is the fact that we are so fucking unhealthy and over weight and so at risk for a number of diseases that our system can't handle the demand.No model is going to be any good when the population is just getting more and more unhealthy.- Oni

I'd rather not go further down a rabbit hole; where, why, and how doctors get their money is beside the point that I was replying to. The point I was replying to was fairly simple: Whether or not the ACA does this, or whatever percentage of the profits that the doctors are getting from the whole system, or even the exact specifics of how doctors go about getting paid, is beside the point I was making that reducing doctors' pay doesn't necessarily improve the system.Regarding your video, I got through about 6 minutes before I stopped out of boredom. We don't debate by link here, and one of the rules you agreed to upon signing up was that you would present arguments in your own words and provide links to back them up. It was boring and irrelevant to the point I was making.

Nobody cares what you want. Other people do want that doctor. And maybe that doctor doesn't want you as a patient.You've failed to show how your idea is an improvement to the system, and have avoided addressing the arguments for why it wouldn't.