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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 31 of 310 (682386)
12-01-2012 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 7:25 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
Re: Seven, the hard way...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How could day four be the creation of an Earth clock if it corresponds to an age when neither the sun or the solar system existed.
in this otherwise step-by-step unfolding
Surely you are not suggesting that day four is the only step out of chronilogical order. How did plants exist before there were even galaxies.
And the Bible says nothing about tectonic plates. Those are your words.
How could Genesis 1 make any sense at allif the reader assumed the Sun and the moon and the stars were not the heavens and the earth which appeared in Gen 1:1????
I realize that te interpretations from the medieval times have foolishlyclaimed Genesis to say that God did created the sun, moon, and stars on day 4.
But the text does NOT say that.
The word "create" does not appear in Gne 1:14.
The word "made" is used.
Made, the Hebrew, means God assigned the Sun the authority over Solar time:
16 And God made, (appointed), two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made,(appointed), the stars also.
Strong's Concordance
Transliteration:`asah = made [H6213] =
made: [asah = appoint, ordain, institute]
`asah
verb
a primitive root
1) to work, produce
a) to act, act with effect, effect
2) to make
a) to att end to, put in order
b) to appoint, ordain, institute

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2012 7:25 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2012 8:00 PM kofh2u has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 310 (682387)
12-01-2012 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 6:18 PM


Start a thread on that
This thread deals with the correspondence between your given Geological eras and the creation days specified in Genesis. I'm raising issues well inside of those bounds.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:18 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 8:26 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 33 of 310 (682389)
12-01-2012 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
12-01-2012 7:30 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note it is the waters that get gathered together, not land.
Google the term Panthalassic Ocean which will clear this up for you
When all the water under heaven is gathered together into one place there can only be one continent around which that water collects:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 12-01-2012 7:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2012 8:10 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 37 by jar, posted 12-01-2012 8:12 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 34 of 310 (682390)
12-01-2012 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 7:54 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
When all the water under heaven is gathered together into one place there can only be one continent around which that water collects:
No that is wrong. But I doubt you can figure out why that statement is wrong all by yourself.
All the oceans are currently gathered in one place but there are multiple land masses in those oceans.
Want to try again?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:54 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 35 of 310 (682392)
12-01-2012 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 7:45 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
If you move the creation of the sun to day one, how is that the least bit helpful? Isn't geological era one still well before protons existed or galaxies were formed?
Your argument makes things worse and not better. Your argument allows you to stretch out some of the days of creation, but not so that they map to the geological days you describe.
I'm not inclined to argue with you about when the sun and moon were created as given by the scripture. BUT if you want to argue that science allows them to exist before galaxies were formed, i won't accept that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:45 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 9:01 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 36 of 310 (682394)
12-01-2012 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 7:54 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
gathered together unto one place
On day two. Again well before ordinary matter even existed. Yet in reality, earth is formed from elements that were created inside stars.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:54 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 2:07 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 310 (682396)
12-01-2012 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 7:54 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
More Bullshit. Even today almost all the water is gathered into one place.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:54 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 38 of 310 (682399)
12-01-2012 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 7:49 PM


This thread deals with the correspondence between your given Geological eras and the creation days specified in Genesis. I'm raising issues well inside of those bounds.
What was the issue, specifically?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2012 7:49 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 39 of 310 (682402)
12-01-2012 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 6:12 PM


Re: Day's length
Hi kofh,
kofh writes:
I like to read the Bible as 100% factually true.
Then why don't you accept what the text says, instead of making up a story that is more outrageous than the BBT.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:12 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 40 of 310 (682430)
12-02-2012 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 6:40 PM


Re: Selective learning
kofh2u writes:
They were not forgotten, but the particular source chosen from those available subjectively grouped them as seven major events as the Chart I used illustrated.
I am using the opportunity to chose those classifications that duplicate the favorite numbers of the bible whenever I have such an opportunity.
Then the source you are using has missed out several eras.
Your use of incomplete information means that any conclusions you make is wrong.
kofh2u writes:
Here is a totally different source which likewise uses this division of the Big Bang Beginning into seven major events:
And it is also incomplete.
kofh2u writes:
But seven does appear inordinately often in Science anyway, so we will see that the parallel is perhaps a usful educational and mnemonic device.
So does many, many, many, many other numbers - which is the problem with the cherry-picking confirmation bias that is numerology.
But those other numbers are off-topic, I think.
So - that brings the number of eras to at least 12.
And I am sure that there are more...
How does the 12+ eras support the biblical account of creation?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:40 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 1:55 PM Panda has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 41 of 310 (682432)
12-02-2012 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 8:00 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
If you move the creation of the sun to day one, how is that the least bit helpful? Isn't geological era one still well before protons existed or galaxies were formed?
...move...?
Both Genesis and Science agree that the Big Bang expansion created the sun, stars, galaxies, and ended in the evening of the Chaotian Eon, with the coalescence of the hot rotating ring of rocks around our sun forming the Globe of the Earth.
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of molten matter and gases), and void: (not valid as a sphere yet- i.e.; an accretion disk), and darkness: [choshek: obscurity] was upon the face (of the disk) of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of the thick ring].
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.; of these transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])
This event marked the Cryptic morning of the Hadean eon:
But, before this Genesis reveals that there was no visible light initially.
For 400 million years the Cosmos had been in a Dark Age until the Force behind Reality said, figuratively speaking, "Let there be light."
Gen. 1:3 And God, (next, after the creation of the Heavens), said, Let there be light: and there was light, (which had been delayed by 400 million years after the Big Bang by a Cosmic Dark Age throughout all the universe).
Gen. 1:4 And (Father Nature, the Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, saw the light, that it was good: and (Father Nature, the Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, divided the light from the darkness (as the stars formed).
Gen. 1:5 And (Father Nature, the Force behind the ever unfolding Reality), God, called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2012 8:00 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 12:02 PM kofh2u has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 310 (682441)
12-02-2012 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 9:01 AM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
Big Bang expansion created the sun
So at least with this last post of yours we can agree that the eras on your Big Bang post do not agree with Genesis. That is progress. We can deal with the table in your original post.
First, scientists do not agree that the sun was created in the Big Bang. The sun was formed 4 billion years later. And well after the 400 million year dark ages.
Is it your contention that the Hadean eon corresponds to day 1?
ABE:
The sun formed about 9 billion years after the Big Bang which was some 8 billion years after the end of the dark age. 4 billion was incorrect.
Where were the lesser lights before they were placed in the firmament on day four.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 9:01 AM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 1:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 43 of 310 (682449)
12-02-2012 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by NoNukes
12-02-2012 12:02 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
So at least with this last post of yours we can agree that the eras on your Big Bang post do not agree with Genesis.
?
I do NOT agree that even one thing is Genesis differs with our acaemic and scientific knowledge.
You must realize that at the instant of the Big Bang, during the Planck Era, all matter which woukdbecome the satrs, sun, and Earth was created and expanding and evolving into the present Galaxies which formed 9 billion years before our own sun and earth devloped from that matter.
This whole duration was the Evening of the Formative Era and the Crptic morning of the Hadean eon, that point when the acretion disk around the sun coalesced into a sphere.
The Chaotian evening of the Formative/Cosmologic Era -
...the Cryptic morning of the Hadean Era/ = First Day
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 12:02 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2012 2:23 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 44 of 310 (682451)
12-02-2012 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Panda
12-02-2012 8:13 AM


Re: Selective learning
Then the source you are using has missed out several eras.
Your use of incomplete information means that any conclusions you make is wrong.
Hmmm,...
Maybe these scientist sum up the whole big Bang expansion differently than some few others, but if we read the details they give us concerning the various phases inside their seven catagories, they are complete and comprehensive.
Be more specific and criticize the diagram I found on gogle below.
What's missing in that synopsis?

Published by George Firth
August 13, 2009, Category: Philosophy of Science
A step by step guide to the birth of our Universe.
1) The Planck Era
No current theory of physics can describe what happened at this point in time, however we believe strongly that it was a singularity of pure energy at the start of time.
2) The Inflation Era
Part of the Universe expanded from billions of times smaller than a proton to something the size of a football field. This eras lifespan was a hundred billionth of a yoctosecond and was approximately 1,000 trillion trillion degrees centigrade.
3) The Quark Era
This period saw vast number of quark and anti quark (what is quark?) pairs forming from energy and then annihilating back to energy. Gluons and other particles also appeared. This eras lifespan was about 100 millionth of a yocto second and was approximately 10 billion billion degrees centigrade.
Time: It’s Relative and Does Not Even Exist
Close to the end of the quark era, the Electroweak force separated and the weak interaction, from then on, the forces of nature and physical laws were as they are now experienced. This era was about 1.1 microseconds and temperatures reached 1000 trillion degrees.
4) Hadron Era
Around the beginning of this era, quarks and antiquarks began combining to form particles called hadrons. These included baryons (protons and neutrons) anti baryons and mesons. This ear took 1 microsecond to complete an was approximately 10 trillion degrees.
5) Lepton Era
Leptons (elections, neutrinos and antiparticles) were very numerous, by the end of this era the electrons annihilated with positrons (anti elections). The lepton era took 1 millisecond and was approximately 1 billion centigrade, by this point in the Big bang the universe was 1000 billion kilometres in diameter.
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
Neutrons converged into protons as the Universe cooled, but when there was about one neutron for every seven protons, most remaining neutrons combined with protons to make helium neclei, each with two protons and two neutrons. This era was 1 second long and was about 10 billion centigrade. In the middle of the Nucleosynthesis Era the Universe stretched to 10 light years in diameter (94.6 trillion kilometres)
7) Opaque Era
During this lengthy era of 200 seconds the sea of matter particles were in a continual state of interaction with photons making the Universe foggy. Temperatures reached 100 million degrees.
At the end of the Opaque Era, many more free protons existed than helium neclei, or other atomic neclei. The scene was set for the first atoms to form. When they did about 9 hydrogen atoms were made for each helium atom. A few lithium a deuterium (heavy hydrogen) atoms also formed.
NOW, The Hadean Era = Matter Era
At the start of our present era, photons were free to travel through the Universe. Most electrons were bound to atoms until the first stars formed, reheating matter. The diameter of the Universe is currently 100 million light years and rising. (1 light year = 9.6 trillion kilometres)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Panda, posted 12-02-2012 8:13 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Panda, posted 12-02-2012 11:33 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 45 of 310 (682454)
12-02-2012 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by NoNukes
12-01-2012 8:10 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
...gathered together unto one place...
On day two.
Again well before ordinary matter even existed. Yet in reality, earth is formed from elements that were created inside stars.
You aren't following this closely enough to understand.
Between the evening of the Chaotian Era and the first appearance of a Global Earth there were seven stages to the Big Bang expansion.
These seven stages are all during the first day.
The events of Pangea-Panthallasso occurred much later, during the Neo-archean evening and the Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era or the third day.
This was exactly the SAME moment in time that the first Pangea-like event occurred, called Rodinia:
Neo-archean evening of the Archaean Era-
... and the Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era = i.e.; The Third Day of Genesis:
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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