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Author Topic:   States petition for secession
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 331 of 384 (689492)
01-31-2013 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by NoNukes
01-30-2013 5:28 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
I think the tyranny is unavoidable. Theocracies hold their principles as indisputable. Yet every Christian accepts that just being moral and just is not enough to meet their requirements. That means to me that theocracies are always going to be needlessly oppressive about issues that don't truly involve right and wrong.
Indeed.
The loftier the pretensions of the power, the more meddlesome, inhuman, and oppressive it will be. Theocracy is the worst of all possible governments. All political power is at best a necessary evil: but it is least evil when its sanctions are most modest and commonplace, when it claims no more than to be useful or convenient and sets itself strictly limited objectives. Anything transcendental or spiritual, or even anything very strongly ethical, in its pretensions is dangerous and encourages it to meddle with our private lives. --- C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2013 5:28 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 3:18 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 332 of 384 (689493)
01-31-2013 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Dr Adequate
01-31-2013 3:09 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
Yes, it seems to me pretty clear now that theocracy can't work at all in this fallen world. I'd love to find a way to get out from under what I consider to be the current intolerable governmental tyranny but apparently there is no way. Too bad but that's the way it is. Thanks for Lewis' quote, I don't remember it although I read so much of his stuff at one time I might actually have read it and forgotten it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-31-2013 3:09 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-01-2013 4:33 AM Faith has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 333 of 384 (689498)
01-31-2013 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 325 by ICANT
01-30-2013 11:51 PM


Re: The idea of "hate speech" is another infringement on religious freedom,
Of course, the problem with that is
1) The poor starve
2) The middle class suffers greatly
3) The wealth gets put into the greatest 1%.. and there will be a much much greater disparity between the wealthy and the poor.
YHOu know.. sort of what has been happening with the 'tax cuts to the rich'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by ICANT, posted 01-30-2013 11:51 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2013 8:46 PM ramoss has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 334 of 384 (689502)
01-31-2013 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 325 by ICANT
01-30-2013 11:51 PM


50-50-50-50
Obama says he wants everybody to pay their FAIR share. The way to do that is have a flat tax.
How about 50% on all earnings over $50,000.00 per year.
The 50-50-50-50-50 tax and economic plan.
quote:
Republicans and libertarians talk about having a simple flat tax system.
Okay. Let's go further and combine the tax system with the benefit system to create one simple easy to administer plan:
  1. give every registered tax payer $50 per day (= $18,250.00 per year) and eliminate welfare, unemployment, social security and government pensions (including those of congress, etc). You can opt to collect this weekly, monthly or annually (at tax time).
  2. tax 50% of all earnings (wages, interest, dividends, etc) over
  3. $50k per year (ie you can earn up to a $86,500.00 annual salary before your net tax is greater than your net benefit)
  4. share 50% of tax collected with the states, based on population.
  5. mandatory retirement at 50.{abe: years of work? /abe}
Fully fund medicare (A, B, C and D) for everyone. Let people buy "gap" insurance for what they want to cover in addition to the medicare coverage with a single payer no deductible plan.
Eliminate minimum wage requirements (this is covered by the $50/day benefit).
Eliminate welfare, social security, unemployment, food stamp, etc state and federal programs and management.
All tax funds left over after budget go to reduce the national debt. Once the debt is eliminated the tax rate can be adjusted annually to match the budget requirements.
Simple.
There could be tax credits for people with certain amounts of income in the form of what they paid in taxes be refunded. ...
Included.
... Not tax money that came from the other people.
You mean not tax on money that was taken from other people by unfair pay rates and bank scams?
Like the wallmart executives that make record "profit" while making their employees use foodstamps and medicaid (paid for by your taxes) because wallmart doesn't pay a fair (living) wage? Their money?
Who do you think actually "makes" the money, ICANT -- the CEO or the people on the work floor building products?
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : wallmart

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by ICANT, posted 01-30-2013 11:51 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2013 8:56 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(3)
Message 335 of 384 (689505)
01-31-2013 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 325 by ICANT
01-30-2013 11:51 PM


Flat tax realities
Ah, when you said flat tax, I assumed you meant everyone paid the same amount.
So you think it's fair for a family of four making $30,000 to be taxed down to the poverty level while one making $1,000,000 has to scrape by on a mere $800,000? And you allow for the possibility that some people might get tax credits refunded to them, but not from tax money that came from other people. Where do you think that tax credit money is going to come from, taxing fish?
And if you think the economy of the Cayman Islands is in any respect analogous to the economy of the U.S., you have problems far beyond the ability of anyone here to deal with.
{AbE}
Oh, by the way, have you done any calculations to determine whether a 20% tax rate would general sufficient revenues? If so, I'd love to see them.
Edited by subbie, : As noted.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by ICANT, posted 01-30-2013 11:51 PM ICANT has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 336 of 384 (689506)
01-31-2013 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
01-31-2013 3:03 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
No, we keep trying to figure out just what you are trying to say. As you persist in refusing, we have to start asking, "Do you mean this?" No answer. "OK, do you mean this?" Again no answer or even more confused nonsense.
Think about what you want to say and then say it clearly and we won't have to try to guess. Yet again, you're the one creating this mess, so don't complain to me about it but rather clean it up!
One common piece of advice is to not blame on malice that which could be due to sheer stupidity. But certainly there is a limit to how stupid and utterly clueless a person could be. And you have repeatedly expressed malice and unreasoning hatred for everybody who don't think and believe in exactly the same way as you do. So turn off the hatred and try to turn on your brain. You'll be amazed at the difference that will make.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 3:03 AM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 337 of 384 (689529)
01-31-2013 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Dr Adequate
01-31-2013 3:00 AM


Re: Flat Assertion
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
Perhaps you could argue for that instead of just saying it?
I would rather argue for a flat consumption tax, which is what is used in the Caymans except for luxury items. Although everyone who buys those luxury items pay the same the percentage is just greater.
Even drug dealers, prostitutes, and gamblers pay their fair share on the underground money they make.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-31-2013 3:00 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by subbie, posted 01-31-2013 11:36 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 338 of 384 (689530)
01-31-2013 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by ramoss
01-31-2013 8:29 AM


Re: The idea of "hate speech" is another infringement on religious freedom,
Hi ramoss,
ramoss writes:
YHOu know.. sort of what has been happening with the 'tax cuts to the rich'.
I have never worked for a company that was spending more money than the took in. And I have never seen a company continue to exist if they just broke even.
Every company that I have ever worked for made a profit that way I could get paid along with all the other workers on Friday.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by ramoss, posted 01-31-2013 8:29 AM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by ramoss, posted 01-31-2013 9:03 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 341 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2013 9:21 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 339 of 384 (689532)
01-31-2013 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by RAZD
01-31-2013 9:23 AM


Re: 50-50-50-50
Hi RAZD,
RAZD writes:
How about 50% on all earnings over $50,000.00 per year.
There are a lot of people that would love to just pay 50% of what they earn in taxes each year.
Many are now paying 63% of their income in taxes.
If you live in California and make 40 million dollars this year you will pay a total of $25,000,000 million in taxes.
What percent of what a person earns do you think they ought to be able to keep?
RAZD writes:
Who do you think actually makes money, ICANT
Everybody that actually works and recieves a pay check for that work.
There are too many people who half works and still receives a full pay check.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2013 9:23 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2013 9:22 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 348 by Rahvin, posted 01-31-2013 11:50 PM ICANT has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 340 of 384 (689535)
01-31-2013 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by ICANT
01-31-2013 8:46 PM


Re: The idea of "hate speech" is another infringement on religious freedom,
And, what does that comment have to do with what I said?? Absolutely nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2013 8:46 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 341 of 384 (689537)
01-31-2013 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by ICANT
01-31-2013 8:46 PM


Re: The idea of "hate speech" is another infringement on religious freedom,
Government is not a business. The purpose of government is not to make a profit.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2013 8:46 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2013 8:09 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 342 of 384 (689538)
01-31-2013 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by ICANT
01-31-2013 8:56 PM


Re: 50-50-50-50
Many are now paying 63% of their income in taxes.
Bullshit.
Show your evidence for this assertion.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by ICANT, posted 01-31-2013 8:56 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Coyote, posted 01-31-2013 11:00 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 362 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2013 8:17 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 343 of 384 (689539)
01-31-2013 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Theodoric
01-31-2013 9:22 PM


Re: 50-50-50-50
So if not 63%, what rate does Phil Mickelson pay in California?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2013 9:22 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by ramoss, posted 01-31-2013 11:12 PM Coyote has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 344 of 384 (689540)
01-31-2013 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Coyote
01-31-2013 11:00 PM


Re: 50-50-50-50

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Coyote, posted 01-31-2013 11:00 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Coyote, posted 01-31-2013 11:15 PM ramoss has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 345 of 384 (689542)
01-31-2013 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by ramoss
01-31-2013 11:12 PM


Re: 50-50-50-50
Why did he claim nearly 63%, and why are he and a number of other professional athletes leaving?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by ramoss, posted 01-31-2013 11:12 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by ramoss, posted 01-31-2013 11:21 PM Coyote has not replied
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