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Author | Topic: Discrimination ok, if based on religion? what else then? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anastasia Member (Idle past 5978 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Sure, I just need to know how. I will work on it now.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
The Catholic church did not 'endorse Nazi Germany'. It maintianed a neutral stance... Yeah... wouldn't want to go taking a stand on something as morally ambiguous as genocide. "I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5978 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
It is about taking a stand on politics, Dan. There was little proof at that time that any genocide was taking place. Roosevelt, Truman, Churchill, and Eisenhower never even mentioned the holocaust in their post-war writings.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
It is about taking a stand on politics, Dan. Yes, the politics of killing 11 million people. That's the kind of thing on which religion should just stay nice and neutral.
There was little proof at that time that any genocide was taking place. It must have been easy to assume that 11 million people had just sorta taken an extended nap. Best not to say anything before all the facts are in. Either way, I'm sure the Catholic Church rushed right out to correct their mistake, and acknowledge what a bad thing that neutrality was immediately after the horrible truth had come to light. To do otherwise would just be sick. "I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, I haven't read your reply to Omni yet, so we'll see.
quote: So, do you know what the "concordat" signed in 1933 by Pope Pius XII was?
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: source The Vatican continues to keep mute on its Holocaust involvement for a painful reason. Its silence was not due to the moral lapses of individual Catholics, or that the church was ignorant of, or duped by, Hitler's aims. It was a deliberate policy of appeasement crafted by church leaders. Before he ascended to the papacy in 1939, Pius XII was the Vatican's ambassador to Germany and secretary of state during the crucial period when Hitler rose to power, and knew full well what Hitler was up to.
In his well-documented work, Hitler's Pope: the Secret History of Pius XII, John Cornwell, Jesus College, Cambridge University professor notes that the Vatican signed its ill-famed concordat with Hitler in 1933 to prevent him from grabbing church property and meddling in church affairs. In return the Vatican pledged the absolute obedience of Germany's Catholic priests and bishops to Hitler. As Pope, Pius XII sent a letter praising "the illustrious Hitler," and expressing confidence in his leadership. Even as evidence piled up that thousands of Jews were being shipped to slaughter in Nazi concentration camps, Pius XII refused to reverse the Vatican's see-no-evil, hear-no-evil political course. He ignored the pleas of President Roosevelt to denounce the Nazis. He declined to endorse a joint declaration by Britain, U.S and Russia condemning the killings of Jews, claiming that he couldn't condemn "particular" atrocities. He was publicly silent when the Germans occupied Rome in 1944 and rounded-up many of the city's Jews. Many were later killed in concentration camps. He continued to send birthday greetings to Hitler each year until his death. He did not reprimand the Catholic archbishop of Berlin for issuing a statement mourning Hitler's death. Pius XII's one and only known pronouncement during the war on the mass murders was a tepid, vaguely worded statement denouncing the deaths "of hundreds of thousands." By then there were millions, and he did not mention Hitler, Nazi Germany, or the Jews in the statement.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5978 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Dan Carroll writes: It must have been easy to assume that 11 million people had just sorta taken an extended nap. Best not to say anything before all the facts are in. It is very easy to judge from your swivel chair. Just read up on it. I am often surprised that those who do not believe in Papal authority even ask for Popes to be involved in politics.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
It is very easy to judge from your swivel chair. I'm sure there's a proper context in which the murder of 11 million people suddenly becomes debatable, morally. Who am I to judge?
Just read up on it. Schraf's post above makes for interesting reading.
I am often surprised that those who do not believe in Papal authority even ask for Popes to be involved in politics. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of involvement in politics to say the words, "genocide is wrong." "I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5978 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Please, I can't do links, but a quick search will tell you that John Cornwell's book has been severely criticized, and that the author himself can no longer vouch for his accusations against the Pope. I do not want to be tempted again to provide quotes without links.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Please, I can't do links... Highlight the URL. Hold "ctrl" and press "C". When writing your post, hold "ctrl" and press "V". "I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5978 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Dan Carroll writes: Schraf's post above makes for interesting reading. Then you might like; The Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi David Dalin.
The Defamation of Pius XII - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
It doesn't take a tremendous amount of involvement in politics to say the words, "genocide is wrong." Obviously it doesn't take a tremendous amount of anything to believe the first thing you hear. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Then you might like; The Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi David Dalin. There are handy-dandy instructions in my previous post that will help you support your points. Edit: Ut... I see you've added a link. It suggests that the Pope in fact saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from the holocaust. How could the Pope have been saving Jews from the holocaust, and simultaneously been unaware that the holocaust was happening? That seems kind of impossible.
Obviously it doesn't take a tremendous amount of anything to believe the first thing you hear. In this case, I heard that genocide is wrong. I understand that this might me seem downright gullible, but I'll go ahead and stick with it. Edited by Dan Carroll, : No reason given. "I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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Taz Member (Idle past 3317 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
anastasia writes: I just need to know how. Right click on the address bar (it's called the url) and choose copy. Then, write down the following:
[url=http://] EvC homepage[/url] The url is the red portion. It will give the following link:
EvC homepage
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5978 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Thanks Taz. I got the linkage going, didn't know how to title them.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Anastasia writes: Roosevelt, Truman, Churchill, and Eisenhower never even mentioned the holocaust in their post-war writings. It would be difficult for Roosevelt to mention the holocaust in his post-war writings as he died in mid-April 1945 and the war in Europe ended on May 7, 1945. In addition, while Eisenhower may not have mentioned the holocaust by exact name he did tour the at least one death camp and was well aware of what the holocaust was, as he describes it in the book Crusade in Europe and in other various post-war letters and memoirs. If you would like, I can provide exact citations. Edited by anglagard, : Forgot quote
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