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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Phat
Member
Posts: 16368
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3136 of 3189 (896896)
08-25-2022 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3135 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:47 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes:
Do you have a point?
Yes. Why can't you defend God instead of labeling Him a "Monster"?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3135 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3138 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 1:06 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 3148 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 1:45 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16368
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3137 of 3189 (896897)
08-25-2022 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3134 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:44 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes:
In Message 3130 you claimed that "The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels." I pointed out that you were dead wrong.
God never sends any human to hell. humans send themselves there. One way is by making the wrong choice. God DID prepare a place for the fallen angels, who previously made their own choice.
ringo writes:
You've deliberately made up a Jesus who is not a monster.
Show me how the character in the book, Jesus Christ, is in any way a monster.
ringo writes:
Your Jesus does not exist outside your own head.
Well, *your* Jesus only exists in the book and is nowhere near your head.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3134 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3139 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 1:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20022
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 3138 of 3189 (896898)
08-25-2022 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3136 by Phat
08-25-2022 1:00 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
Why can't you defend God instead of labeling Him a "Monster"?
I'm not "labelling" Him a monster. I'm pointing out that He IS a monster. Yes, He is entitled to a defense, just like that other monster Hitler - but He isn't necessarily entitled to MY defense. Have you ever heard me defend Hitler?
A better question would be, "Why do YOU defend your monster God? Why do you make up a whole untenable theology to try to defend your made-up monster?

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3136 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20022
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3139 of 3189 (896899)
08-25-2022 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3137 by Phat
08-25-2022 1:03 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
God never sends any human to hell.
Your made-up God.
Phat writes:
God DID prepare a place for the fallen angels, who previously made their own choice.
Where are you getting this?
Phat writes:
Show me how the character in the book, Jesus Christ, is in any way a monster.
I already did, just a few posts ago. Matthew 25. He's going to send a lot of people to eternal punishment.
(See, here I'm defending the low-lifes who don't feed the hungry. They don't deserve eternal punishment either.)
Phat writes:
Well, *your* Jesus only exists in the book and is nowhere near your head.
He isn't "my" Jesus. He's the only Jesus that exists, as a character in a book. And no, He is not in my head. Having a delusion that's only in your own head is a bad thing.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3137 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3140 by Theodoric, posted 08-25-2022 9:15 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7570
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 3140 of 3189 (896906)
08-25-2022 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3139 by ringo
08-25-2022 1:14 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Would be nice if he knew his bible.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3139 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 1:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3141 by ringo, posted 08-26-2022 11:43 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20022
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 3141 of 3189 (896912)
08-26-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3140 by Theodoric
08-25-2022 9:15 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Theodoric writes:
Would be nice if he knew his bible.
The worst of it is he cherry-picks the parts he likes. One minute he's saying he's "not limited by the book" and the next minute he's quoting the book to back up some point.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3140 by Theodoric, posted 08-25-2022 9:15 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3142 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 12:22 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16368
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3142 of 3189 (896913)
08-26-2022 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3141 by ringo
08-26-2022 11:43 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
You do nearly the same thing. One minute you quote Chapter and Verse about what Jesus told his followers to do while the next moment you argue that Jesus never existed the way He is presented in organized religion.
There is but a single standard. If God exists as Father/Son//Holy Spirit in the book and believers are expected to follow such a God then God exists for everyone. Otherwise, you have no place to "tell" believers what they are expected to follow. And dont give me the whole Bilbo Baggins/Long John Silver argument. I'm telling you that if you argue that God exists for me, He darn well exists for you regardless of your belief.
God is objective. God is NOT relative to the individual. Throw that belief away!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3141 by ringo, posted 08-26-2022 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3143 by ringo, posted 08-26-2022 1:08 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 3144 by Theodoric, posted 08-26-2022 3:05 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20022
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 3143 of 3189 (896914)
08-26-2022 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3142 by Phat
08-26-2022 12:22 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes:
You do nearly the same thing. One minute you quote Chapter and Verse about what Jesus told his followers to do while the next moment you argue that Jesus never existed the way He is presented in organized religion.
It's entirely different. I only point out what you WOULD do if your belief was sincere.
Phat writes:
If God exists as Father/Son//Holy Spirit in the book and believers are expected to follow such a God then God exists for everyone.
That doesn't follow at all.
Phat writes:
Otherwise, you have no place to "tell" believers what they are expected to follow.
Nonsense. It's plainly written what believers are expected to follow. Your refusal to follow is evidence that you're not a sincere follower.
Phat writes:
I'm telling you that if you argue that God exists for me, He darn well exists for you regardless of your belief.
But I DON'T argue that God exists for you. Quite the opposite. I argue that God DOESN'T really exist for you, or you would do what He wants you to do.
Phat writes:
God is objective. God is NOT relative to the individual.
That's still just empty rhetoric. God is NOT objective, by any stretch of the immagination - or there wouldn't be so many versions of "God". God is DEFINITELY relative to the individual - or there wouldn't be so many versions of "God".
Phat writes:
Throw that belief away!
YOU throw away your empty rhetoric and make a reasoned argument.

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3142 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 12:22 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7570
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 3144 of 3189 (896915)
08-26-2022 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3142 by Phat
08-26-2022 12:22 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
After all this time you still do not understand what Ringo is saying? Wow!

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3142 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 12:22 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3145 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 3:49 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16368
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3145 of 3189 (896917)
08-26-2022 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3144 by Theodoric
08-26-2022 3:05 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
After all this time you still do not understand what Ringo is saying? Wow!
I understand him. He claims that the character does not exist apart from the book.
If I asked him where the character existed before the book was written, he may claim that the character was in the imagination of the author.
Yet if I suggested that the inspiration for the writing came from God to the authors, he would scoff.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3144 by Theodoric, posted 08-26-2022 3:05 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3146 by AZPaul3, posted 08-26-2022 4:55 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 3147 by nwr, posted 08-26-2022 4:58 PM Phat has replied
 Message 3170 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7046
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 3146 of 3189 (896920)
08-26-2022 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 3145 by Phat
08-26-2022 3:49 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Yet if I suggested that the inspiration for the writing came from God to the authors, he would scoff.
We should all be extremely disappointed if he didn't.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3145 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 3:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6115
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 3147 of 3189 (896922)
08-26-2022 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3145 by Phat
08-26-2022 3:49 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Yet if I suggested that the inspiration for the writing came from God to the authors, he would scoff.
And why would that be a problem for you?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3145 by Phat, posted 08-26-2022 3:49 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3149 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 2:09 AM nwr has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7046
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 3148 of 3189 (896940)
08-27-2022 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 3136 by Phat
08-25-2022 1:00 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Yes. Why can't you defend God instead of labeling Him a "Monster"?
Because he is a known proven monster. Just read his fuckin book.
And then the shared but violent conceptions of your god with the religious despotism it fosters has been this world's greatest evil.
From Abraham thru Urban II thru bin Laden your god's evil casts a 3500 year trail of torture, terrorism and blood across this whole world.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3136 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3150 by Phat, posted 08-27-2022 2:11 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16368
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3149 of 3189 (896941)
08-27-2022 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3147 by nwr
08-26-2022 4:58 PM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
nwr writes:
And why would that be a problem for you?
Because you cant have it both ways. You cant claim that GOD and Jesus were limited to characters in a book and then also claim that GOD was a Monster. The Big Bad Wolf was a monster. Yet we all know that its just a story.
Now, on the other hand, you *could* claim that Christians have been monstrous and evil, but for every bad instance you gave, I could show a good one.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3147 by nwr, posted 08-26-2022 4:58 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3151 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2022 2:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3155 by nwr, posted 08-27-2022 8:56 AM Phat has replied
 Message 3157 by Theodoric, posted 08-27-2022 11:55 AM Phat has replied
 Message 3171 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:11 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16368
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3150 of 3189 (896942)
08-27-2022 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3148 by AZPaul3
08-27-2022 1:45 AM


Re: Monsters Under The Bed
AZAntiTheist3 writes:
Because he is a known proven monster. Just read his fuckin book.
For most Christians, GOD is Jesus. Jesus is God's character. And I don't see Him doing Evil things. But then again, maybe your demons have you convinced.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3148 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 1:45 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3152 by AZPaul3, posted 08-27-2022 3:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3153 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2022 5:09 AM Phat has replied

  
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