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Author
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Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 2926 of 3207 (896456)
08-10-2022 3:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 2916 by Phat
08-09-2022 6:32 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: Yes, we see how well grown-ups run the world! We run it the best we can given that we're competitive evolved apes. It's the way your god made us according to you. If He's still involved he's either playing an elaborate and nasty joke on us or he's crap at the job.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2916 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 6:32 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2927 by Phat, posted 08-10-2022 3:20 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2927 of 3207 (896458)
08-10-2022 3:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 2926 by Tangle
08-10-2022 3:05 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Perhaps He knew that we (some of us) would honestly criticize and even despise Him for it. Perhaps he is waiting for us to get over it and keep evolving.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2926 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2022 3:05 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2928 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2022 3:25 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 2928 of 3207 (896459)
08-10-2022 3:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 2927 by Phat
08-10-2022 3:20 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: Perhaps He knew that we (some of us) would honestly criticize and even despise Him for it. Perhaps he is waiting for us to get over it and keep evolving. And perhaps the moon is made of cheese. Surely you can see the problem here?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2927 by Phat, posted 08-10-2022 3:20 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2929 by Phat, posted 08-10-2022 3:34 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2929 of 3207 (896460)
08-10-2022 3:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 2928 by Tangle
08-10-2022 3:25 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Surely you can see the problem here? We've been to the moon.
John 1:18 NKJV writes: No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. And yet He has given you the ability to deny Him, cheesy though that may sound. Stile likely gets a pass due to his honesty within this thread. What's your excuse? The Son is a lot more than bells and smells and Priests playing dress-up. You missed out on a lot being raised Catholic.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2928 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2022 3:25 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2930 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2022 4:23 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 2930 of 3207 (896462)
08-10-2022 4:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 2929 by Phat
08-10-2022 3:34 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: And yet He has given you the ability to deny Him, cheesy though that may sound. Stupid is a better adjective. "He gave me the ability to deny him" - what a pile of self-referencing nonsense.
Stile likely gets a pass due to his honesty within this thread. What's your excuse? The Son is a lot more than bells and smells and Priests playing dress-up. You missed out on a lot being raised Catholic. I was raised a Christian, just like you - same book of fairytales. Same utter nonsense but with the added twist of kiddy fiddling. Not that kiddy-fiddling is reserved only for Catholic priests, they just seem to be market leaders. (No, I was not abused by a priest or anyone. But I saw it.)
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2929 by Phat, posted 08-10-2022 3:34 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 2931 of 3207 (896464)
08-10-2022 8:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 2920 by Phat
08-09-2022 10:49 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Religion turns some people into better people, but mostly not according to my own observations. Most of the trolls and truly horrible people who have spent time here have been deeply religious. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2920 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 10:49 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 2932 of 3207 (896465)
08-10-2022 8:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 2916 by Phat
08-09-2022 6:32 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: So you are saying that its highly illogical and unbelievable that there is a higher power, Creator of all seen and unseen. Of course there's a higher power, but you're thinking too small. God's just a sadistic mid-level manager with insufficient oversight who's gotten out of hand. Wars and earthquakes and hurricanes and Down's syndrome and cancer and Alzheimers and MS and Parkinson's and ebola and Tom Cruise and on and on, and he wants you to worship him for this? He's obviously on a power trip. And you pray to this guy? How's that working for you? --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2916 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 6:32 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4413 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 2933 of 3207 (896466)
08-10-2022 11:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 2923 by Phat
08-09-2022 11:37 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: Tanypteryx writes: If there were any higher powers that wanted us to know they exist, it would be easy to give us absolute evidence. It would also be easy to remain invisible until and unless we wanted to know about them(Him,Her,It) or freely choose to dismiss such a possible concept. IF GOD exists, GOD exists regardless of evidence or lack thereof. If not, no harm no foul. Well, it seems to be taking the easy path and remains undetected.
On the contrary, a perspective of a multitude (no matter the number) is quite tangible if it causes mass behavior. Yep, everyone in the theatre laughs at the same time. What I obviously meant was the delusions of the multitude do not delude me any more than the delusions of an individual. The mob may be able to kill me but they cannot force me to accept their delusions.
Phat writes: Tanypteryx writes: No one thinks you can run the world, no one is talking about running the world. If *you* (anyone) can't run the world, what makes you think that *we* can? (though I suppose that the jury is still out, pending future results) Why are you still talking about running the world? That has nothing to do with this discussion. That's why I said:
quote
No one thinks you can run the world, no one is talking about running the world.
—Tanypteryx
Phat writes: If a GOD existed, would we say the same thing to Him? Butt out and do your own thing? I would. If a god existed, it has a lot to answer for, war, disease, hate, so fuck god.
Phat writes: Why would we rebel against a *human* Who chose to be responsible for *ALL* of us? I assume you mean Jesus. Well, as far as anyone can see, he has failed to accept responsibility for anything. I'm responsible for my own behavior, not someone else's.
Phat writes: Tanypteryx writes: I know the difference between imagination and reality. Thats because you have grown up. A child has no problem with both extremes existing at the same time and place. Until about age 8 and then they come to realize that Santa Claus and magic are not real. If they are lucky they will continue to have a rich imagination and recognize that it is not reality, but it can have a great influence in their lives.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2923 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 11:37 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4413 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 2934 of 3207 (896467)
08-10-2022 11:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 2932 by Percy
08-10-2022 8:43 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
ebola and Tom Cruise Finally, someone has the balls to say what we are all thinking...Tom Cruise is just one of god's shitty sadistic jokes!
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2932 by Percy, posted 08-10-2022 8:43 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2935 of 3207 (896470)
08-10-2022 11:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 2912 by Phat
08-09-2022 4:39 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: I would add that a person does not really "know" until they are finished believing/accepting.
That's nonsense. Belief is the opposite of knowledge. You can't know until you stop believing nonsense.
"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2912 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 4:39 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2939 by Phat, posted 08-10-2022 1:33 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2936 of 3207 (896471)
08-10-2022 11:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 2914 by Phat
08-09-2022 5:17 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: You have really high standards. But ironically, I appreciate it.
You think appreciating high standards is ironic?
"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2914 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 5:17 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2937 of 3207 (896472)
08-10-2022 11:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 2916 by Phat
08-09-2022 6:32 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Luke writes: ... whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.
Little children don't worry about their retirement.
Phat writes: Is your imagination limited by science?
That's a very anti-science thing to say.
"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2916 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 6:32 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2940 by Phat, posted 08-10-2022 1:38 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 2938 of 3207 (896473)
08-10-2022 12:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 2921 by Phat
08-09-2022 10:55 PM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Phat writes: The same could be said for atheist "nutcases" like Putin...
Putin is a follower of the Orthodox Church.
"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2921 by Phat, posted 08-09-2022 10:55 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2939 of 3207 (896475)
08-10-2022 1:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 2935 by ringo
08-10-2022 11:51 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
ringo writes: That's nonsense. Belief is the opposite of knowledge. You can't know until you stop believing nonsense.
*Phat blows dust off of both the dictionary and the Bible* Au Contraire. Ignorance is the opposite of knowledge, not belief. And nonsense is subjective. Many things in life don't make sense. Such as how, if Putin actually followed Orthodoxy, he would approve of the sins of his army.
Vines writes: BELIEF, BELIEVE, BELIEVERS 1. pisteuo NT:4100, "to believe," also "to be persuaded of," and hence, "to place confidence in, to trust," signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence. It is most frequent in the writings of the apostle John, especially the Gospel. He does not use the noun (see below). For the Lord's first use of the verb, see 1:50. Of the writers of the Gospels, Matthew uses the verb ten times, Mark ten, Luke nine, John ninety-nine. In Acts 5:14 the present participle of the verb is translated "believers. See COMMIT, INTRUST, TRUST. 2. peitho NT:3982, "to persuade," in the middle and passive voices signifies "to suffer oneself to be persuaded," e. g., Luke 16:31; Heb 13:18; it is sometimes translated "believe" in the RV, but not in Acts 17:4, RV, "were persuaded," and 27:11, "gave (more) heed"; in Acts 28:24, "believed. See AGREE, ASSURE, OBEY, PERSUADE, TRUST, YIELD. (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words Jesus said that it was blessed to believe without seeing. You believe in the ideals of a character in a book, yet (having) never seen the character outside of the book, you conclude that he was an Elmer Gantry. I think that you underestimate your original argument with Stile. You have only finished looking when you conclude that belief and knowledge are polar opposites. It appears to me that the opposite of belief is mistrust. You have gone all-in on trusting science while somehow feeling as if you have to discard your belief in order to do so.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2935 by ringo, posted 08-10-2022 11:51 AM | | ringo has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2940 of 3207 (896476)
08-10-2022 1:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 2937 by ringo
08-10-2022 11:59 AM
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Re: The Man In The Book
Little children don't worry about their retirement. Touche I suppose it could be said that worry is a form of mistrust. Edited by Phat, : added sentence
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2937 by ringo, posted 08-10-2022 11:59 AM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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