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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I don't even care whether the idea of a deity is rational or not. But it's interesting that you can't show us exactly what is irrational about it. It appears ringo desperately wants to say that there is something rational about the idea of a deity....All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 626 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
I've shown you my opinion. If you don't like it, you're welcome to try to rebut.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
SB writes: It's not that we can't say it's absolutely wrong, it's that we can't say anything about it at all. Plainly we can, we've been saying all sorts of stuff about it for thousands of years. Certainly we've made zilch progress so far. Can we definitively say we never will? Not to my mind. Does this mean that I think it a real possibility - no it's obvious garbage. But that's not real knowledge, just my opinion.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 626 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Well yes, I suppose it's physically possible to say anything about anything.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
a lot also depends on what the jar was intended for. McDonalds menu was never intended for sharkfin soup. Stiles brain, managed by him, was never intended to have God in it because Stile deemed God unnecessary. Thus the brain remained void of God the same way that the jar is now void of peanut butter...except for the added fact that Stile never labled his brain as "containing God". You wont find something in a place you never intended to put it...withing your own personal realm of control.
On the other hand, we often misplace things. Absentmindedly. Maybe the knowledge of good and evil symbolically misplaced God. Instead of a jar of peanut butter(whether or not previously full) we now have a jar of peanut butter and snake venom. Which nobody wants to open. The intended use of the contents is now spoiled....Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I think it's a good sign that we're not just taking sides. Tangle and I have disagreed with each other too on many occasions. Im amazed, by the way that ringo and Tangle are actually supporting the argument of a believer!All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Don't kid yourself. You're not off the hook yet. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question and until you provide one I'm going to continue pointing out that you can't.
... you were getting rather tedious. Sarah Bellum writes:
What's the difference with God?
People may differ in their opinions as to what is beautiful and what is not, but that doesn't mean there is no space for rational discussion on the subject, as one person may persuade another about reasons that a particular thing might be considered beautiful - giving them insights, as it were. Sarah Bellum writes:
The question was: Is it a rational idea or an irrational idea? And can it be falsified? As for love, emotions are not well understood by science and, who knows, may never be. But it's possible there is some evolutionary, rational, element to that particular emotion. On the other hand, it may just be an incidental side effect in the development of the complex human brain.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Not at all. It's like looking into an empty peanut butter jar and saying I'll have to look elsewhere for peanut butter. That's like looking into an empty peanut butter jar and saying you cannot say the jar is empty because all your evidence is merely evidence of a lack of peanut butter!All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I couldn't care less about your opinion. I've been asking you for facts. I've shown you my opinion.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Tangle writes: And again, who's saying we should avoid using our best methods? Anyone saying they can effect the status on "what we know about God's existence" without using rational testing. Just show me what your rational testing is for determining that I can't say "I know that God does not exist" and you're golden.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
ringo writes: Don't be silly. There's the cake, right in front of you. You don't have to look for it at all. Don't be silly. There's no God, right in front of you. You don't have to look for Him at all.
I am demonstrating to you that I can bake a cake. It isn't likely to be in both of our imaginations at the same time. I am demonstrating to you that God does not exist. It isn't likely that both of our imaginations don't-see-Him-when-He's-actually-there at the same time.
We have to look in enough places. Exactly.Enough = rational places rationally tested according to the rational information available to us. Done. For the last few thousand years. If you can't find skarkfin soup on the McDonalds menu, you can't say that you know sharkfin soup doesn't exist. I'm not saying I know sharkfin soup doesn't exist. This point is therefore irrelevant. We've been through this already.
You haven't looked in enough places. If you think you can rationally defend this, please do.So far you have not been able to. What rational reason do you have to suggest that God may exist in another rational location?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Well why not? It's what we do, try to find stuff out. Indeed. But when there are no effects there to study then what are we studying? What are we going to find out besides that there are no effects to study? Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Stile writes: Anyone saying they can effect the status on "what we know about God's existence" without using rational testing. Only you are saying that. You've made the only argument a scientific test which is fine by me.
Just show me what your rational testing is for determining that I can't say "I know that God does not exist" and you're golden. We've done this. Several times. Science knows what it knows so far. It has a habit of finding out more. So to say that something that science knows nothing about doesn't exists is non-scientific. Obviously the fact that science is pushing back belief and is not finding a god anywhere, means that we can conclude, tentatively, that there is none. Pending further evidence. But absolutely *know* it for sure? Nonsense.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 626 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Can it ever really be empty? It still has air in it. And even if you remove the air from it there are still the gravitational and magnetic fields that permeate space. What would "empty space" really mean?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
AZPaul writes: Indeed. But when there are no effects there to study then what are we studying? We're just studying the universe as it appears to us with whatever tools we can develop. We'll see what occurs.
What are we going to find out besides that there are no effects to study? Well I say nothing. But that's not something anyone can be totally sure about.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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