I Know That God Does Not Exist

My point is not a "God of the Gaps" position. I am not proposing anything that deals with science. I am saying that there is an external intelligence that we are unable to directly perceive. I contend that we can indirectly perceive that intelligence through the rationality of the universe and science is essentially limited to explaoring and understanding that rationality.Here is a quote from the psot below yours.

quote:

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The term was invented as a criticism of people who perceive that God only acts in the gaps, and who restrict God's activity to such "gaps". It has also been argued that the God-of-the-gaps view is predicated on the assumption that any event which can be explained by science automatically excludes God; that if God did not do something via direct action, that he had no role in it at all.

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I will go so far as to say that I am agnostic on whether or not there was divine interference with the evolutionary process as it evolved. I'm ok with the process running completely as a natural process from the get go. I recently read a book that makes that very claim called Freedom All the Way Up by Christian Barrigar

..from our perspective, so that we can exist. C'mon. I believe in those things too. Why do physics, chemistry and biology exist?
Why is it that we have the intelligence to study thos subjects?

OK then, what is the criteria you want me to use?

I contend that the existence of the natural processes themselves constitute evidence. Me neither...so what? Firstly belittling someone's view point is what you do when your argument is weak. Also, I am not saying that God is pushing buttons and pulling strings. Natural processes function naturally. As I said earlier I am agnostic on wheter or not there is divine intervention in natural processes. It doesn't affect my theistic beliefs one way or the other.

Fine. If I pay my taxes and in addition give $100.00 to the local food bank then I have contributed more than the individual who paid the same amount of taxes did who did not make a charitable donation. The secular articles I linked show that church goers voluntarily contribute more than non-church goers.

..whether one exists or not. However, if I am correct in saying that life exists because of an intelligent first cause which we can call God, then your life wouldn't exist at all without God. ..and the evidence for that is? That sure sounds like a faith position to me.

OK. I showed you secular studies done that show that church goers contribute more financially than do non-church goers. What evidence do you have that non-church goers contribute more in other ways that do non-church goers. My personal experience with volunteering has always seen church goers volunteer their time far more than non-church goers.Also with your two mites quote that was hardly the point. The studies were done across a broad spectrum that included people of essentially all incomes.

How on earth is that germane? Those drugs are to help with brain illnesses jsut as you take an Tylenol for a headache.

Hey, we agree.

When we open the hood of a car and see the engine we can see that the car moves because of the engine so that explains everything by that way of thinking.I am suggesting that just as the engine needed an intelligent cause so did brain chemistry.

That again simply dodges the issue. Yes, natural processes can explain a great deal but not why the natural processes exist in the first place. From a scientific POV a non-natural view adds nothing to scientific study. Scientific study is geared to identify and understand natural processes. Why those processes exist at all is outside the purview of science.That however, does not mean that our vieews on the subject don't matter.

Science has made so many amazing discoveries. I don't have a background in science beyond high school other than recreational reading. I am amazed when read posts like those of Son Goku on this forum.Little point though. If science is able to accomplish what you suggest there is still the question of what was behind the process that gave the universe those properties.Just another thought on all of this. We actually can if we wish separate the creation of the universe from the creation of life. I think the two are connected as from what I have read there is a connection between consciousness and our physical world. Just a thought.

Consciousness is a conundrum. Here is one good article on it. Why Can't the World's Greatest Minds Solve the Mystery of Consciousness?There is also the question of the Observer Effect where conscious observation effects changes in what we observe.It is anything but simple.

I think I covered it in my reply to AZPaul3. I was primarily thinking about the observer effect. Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

As you pointed out in your quote the observer doesn't "need' to be conscious. However a conscious observer has the same effect as when it is measured. Also, of course it takes a conscious observer to be able to measure the effect.