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Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Immorality of Homosexuality | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Why is homosexuality immoral?
I understand that "the Bible says so". The Bible also says don't cut your beard. One can easily make an argument for why murder or theft or rape are immoral without having to rely on a "Bible says so" type statement. What would be the non-literalist argument for why homosexuality is immoral?
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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
*sigh*
you know it's just gonna go into the natural vs unnatural debate which leads us to the animals vs better than animals debate which leads us back to "the bible says so". good luck. that's all i'm gonna say.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Possible reasons: (Which also apply to casual heterosexual activity)
I can't think of any more reasons without citing religious dogma. I digress for now and can only say that Homosexual behavior could be done better. (A Higher and more noble purpose) If sex is not being used for procreation, what difference is it from mutual masturbation?
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2513 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
what difference is it from mutual masturbation? you say that like it's a bad thing. but I digress. sex for humans is a powerful bonding tool. it's not just for procreation, and imo shouldn't be argued for such. hm. that's still a digression. {/uselessABE}:funny. my posts number thanks to this one here is at "1666". looks like i'm related to the devil. maybe he was causing my off-topicness? darn little imaginary trickster. {/useless ABE} Edited by kuresu, : No reason given.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I'm not sure I understand the basis for your morality.
In the examples I sited above (murder, theft, rape) the acts are immoral because one is doing something to another which is unwanted. I'm not sure I understand how
Creatures seeking perfection in other creatures, which is a form of creature worship rather than consummate oneness.
is immoral. Also, I don't get this
Humans are expected to strive for better and more noble things in life than the perfect orgasm. "expected to" by who?
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
It's not immoral at all.
But it can trigger a sense of revulsion in some people. I would say some people register this feeling and seek to justify it in their heads in any which way they can. Another example of people not thinking with their brains.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
If you are going to argue that all non-procreative sex is morally wrong then you have to include heterosexual sex where one or both partners are infertile. You're going to have to reject all contraception as morally wrong (even including the "natural" methods that even the Catholics are prepared to accept).
Are you prepared to go that far ?
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Phat suggests as disapproving arguments:
Creatures seeking perfection in other creatures, which is a form of creature worship rather than consummate oneness. False dichotomy. If one tries to make a case from this Platonist perspective, one is stuck with the fact that Platonists and Neoplatonists have always viewed the admiration of perfection in the creature as part of the path toward union with the creator.
Humans are expected to strive for better and more noble things in life than the perfect orgasm. Another false dichotomy. One can strive for better and more noble things in life AND the perfect orgasm.
Homosexual behavior could be done better. (A Higher and more noble purpose) So should people be trying to perfect the orgasm or not? Regardless, Plato got to those higher, nobler purposes a long time ago.
If sex is not being used for procreation, what difference is it from mutual masturbation? Maybe none. So what's wrong with mutual masturbation? I mean, when two people love each other very much... ___ Archer All species are transitional.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Nuggin writes:
It isn't. At all.
Why is homosexuality immoral? What would be the non-literalist argument for why homosexuality is immoral?
There isn't one. Which is exactly why it isn't immoral. All people are equal. All people have an equal right to their pursuit of happiness which does not infringe on anyone else's pursuit of happiness. Homosexuals are people. Homosexuals have an equal right to their pursuit of happiness which does not infringe on anyone else's pursuit of happiness. Homosexuality does not infringe on anyone else's pursuit of happiness. Anyone who attempts to prevent or restrict homosexual behaviour (including being labelled as "married") is acting immorally by infringing on other people's pursuit of happiness. Anyone who discriminates against homosexuals is just as bad as any discriminating slave owner of the past (or present, in some places I suppose...) For anyone who thinks they should be able to tell other people how to live:What makes you think you have the enlightenment to obstruct another human being's pursuit of happiness that has absolutely no bearing on anyone else? Sorry for the preaching. Prejudice and discrimination irks me.
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Tusko Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 615 From: London, UK Joined: |
I think you'd be hard pressed to make a non-scriptural moral argument against homosexuality. You could go the unnatural route, but that ends up looking a bit silly in my mind when you also have to consider men who choose to have sex with wombless women as evil too.
My favourite argument against homosexuality isn't moral but pragmatic. I first encountered it on a nice little Ku Klux Klan website a few years back. Its actually a standard claim, I learned subsequently, that is lifted and copied and pasted around the internet. I'm not sure where it started. It is (and I paraphrase because I don't want to visit it at work): Semen contains Dangerous Things. They give solemn stats, saying mouthfuls of semen contain enough viruses as can be found in pints of blood. Well, something like that, anyway. It still makes me smile to think that this might be pursuasive to anyone. But its still my favourite one.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
Semen contains Dangerous Things. yep. it contains these horrible things that make nasty little parasites. no one should ever come into contact with semen.
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
I’d like to compare the reasons given for the illegality and/or immorality of drugs with homosexuality.
Health - Drugs aren’t good for you. But really, with the STDs around, neither is sex, or even kissing for that matter. If it wasn’t for drugs feeling good, nobody would take the risk. The same applies for sex, only both the rewards and the risks are less intense. Cost to society - Drugs make you do immoral things, and is to the detriment of society. Homosexuality can lead to crimes, sometimes (just as drug users don’t HAVE to commit a crime), such as sexual assault (and, it is often considered that homosexuality leads to pedophilia, but I doubt that is true). Probably no more than heterosexuality, however. I guess the impact on families due to homosexuality would be significant, given the social attitude (regardless of the cause of that attitude) towards it. Although, this particular argument probably argues that prejudice against homosexuality is immoral. There would be more of it - If drugs were considered ok, there would be more of them. Likewise, if homosexuality was ok, there would be more of it. But, this is a useless argument for anything, because it assumes the point it is trying to argue, that that thing is bad and more of it is undesirable. It's unnatural - interfering with ones consciousness is unnatural. Likewise, interfering with heterosexuality is unnatural. But of course, the premise isn't true, because neither interfering with one's consciousness nor homosexuality are unnatural. There, that should give everyone some thinking material. Looks like there is nothing wrong with drugs either! Contributors needed in the following fields: Physical Anthropology, Invertebrate Biology (esp. Lepidopterology), Biochemistry, Population Genetics, Scientific Illustration, Scientific History, Philosophy of Science, Logic and others. Researchers also wanted to source creationist literature references. Register here!
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Nuggin asks:
Only the moralists can answer that. I don't care about Christian "immorality," or Muslim "immorality,"but I do care about the highest common good. For me, it comes down to choice vs. nature. Most homosexuals claim to be naturally gay, as opposed to deliberately choosing it as a lifestyle. So, if being gay (or whatever) is not a matter of choice, how can it be judged as immoral? Why is homosexuality immoral? ”HM
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: The large majority of pedophiles are straight men.
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