The Second Amendment

We know that there is an individual right to bear arms present in the second amendment. The questions are, the scope and purpose of the individual right, the application of that right to the states, and the level of constitutional scrutiny required for federal and state laws which affect or limit personal rights on guns. In other words, what guns, maintained how, and carried when?I'd be interested in discussing the federalist papers. For example in this often quote mined statement from James Madison, it seems clear that the right to bear arms is closely related to the benefits of having a state militia, with state officials in charge. Why is so obvious that Madison's statement is inconsistent with the state having the right to pass gun control laws..

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Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.

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I don't get that from the quote, I guess, so "clear" seems a bit of an overstatement. This seems to be Madison affirming that widespread arms ownership by the people would "speedily overturn" the despotic thrones of Europe (or, presumably, anywhere else.) The precise view so recently lampooned by some here. I don't see any support, here, for the notion that the right to arms is something Madison viewed as appropriate only for militia members. The view implied here, it seems, isn't that militia membership should be a pre-requisite for the ownership of arms, but that the popular ownership of arms is a prerequisite for being able to form a militia.

Fair enough. Yes, but even that would tie the right to bear arms closely to the benefits of having a state militia. Not quite. The idea lampooned here is that the purpose of the 2nd amendment was to empower individuals or small groups would take on the federal government and that such a need justifies individuals having matching fire power at home. Some people even expressed the idea that democracy could not exist without this matching power. Jon expanded on that idea to argue that the Wilmington Massacre was democracy in action.Those ideas are quite a bit different from a state militia using officers trained by the state of South Carolina to organize a resistance.

Straggler prophesized that in 2012.M'eh, . . . lucky guess.

Fortunately there are also a VERY large liberal/progressive group that are also gun owners.Speaking of guns, this lock down/hibernation period has let me give SPA Days to many of my less often used firearms. It's been fun.

Blimey. That’s a blast from the past. But yeah. The Tea Party lot as it was then or the MAGA mob mob as it is now - These are the dangerous misguided zealots who, righteous in their perverted patriotism as they are, would be most likely to take the US from democracy to despotism. Fortunately the US does seem to have survived the test of Trump with democracy intact. But it’s a reminder to us all of how these things can occur.

Yes, another spot-on prophesy by Straggler about the importance of ever-vigilance against tyranny in our tiny, shrinking, hatefilled world. (Strag, please PM me about tomorrow's lottery numbers).Now if you'll excuse me, . . . two men in black uniforms with arm bands are at my front door, . . . something about a "re-education camp" that I am required to attend. Seems legit, why should I question it?

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Britney Spears Carrie Underwood
"I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that."

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I can confirm that.Now that Trump has claimed he can nullify the 14th Amendment with an executive order, it would seem completely in line for a future president to nullify the 2nd Amendment as well.

The pardoning of the Jan 6 insurrectionists was a message.Trump is telling paramilitary militias and other independent armed groups that he has their back.This happened in Nazi Germany too. The anti-government militias became pseudo-official and operated outside the law to apply force and threats of force to ensure there would be no resistance to the violation of laws and norms, to ensure the "right people" were convicted or acquitted, etc.I can't resist the full force of the US government with a firearm. I can't resist the US military.I can resist the fucking Proud Boys and the so-called "Oath Keepers."

Some years ago (I think around the 2020 campaign), an interviewee on radio with expertise on how tyrants seize and hold power stated that as Trump consolidated power he would have to end private gun ownership and take everybody's guns away from them. The reasoning was that no tyrant can afford to allow the populace to be armed out of fear of a popular uprising against him.And what's going to happen when Trump does that and tries to take the guns away from the militias he's building up now but will turn against him when he betrays them (as he has betrayed everyone else when he could turn a quick profit on it)?

Well, luckily for us, the police, brave protectors of citizens and communities, have our backs . . . /sThe now convicted felon, our current president, ran on platforms that he is pro-law.So the police union endorsed the current president in 2016 and 2020. Of course.On 1/6/21, the current president incited violence and harm against the capital police. Over 100 police officers were seriously injured.In Sept 2024, the Fraternal Order of Police (the largest police union) president, Patrick Yoes, said the Republican nominee "has shown time after time that he supports our law enforcement officers and understands the issues our members face every day." During his first term, Yoes said, Trump "made it crystal clear that he has our backs."Sooo which candidate did the police union endorse in 2024? . . . the current president. Of course.And now, the current president pardons ALL of the violent insurrectionists who harmed the police on 1/6/21.So, here’s the really really really difficult question . . . can anybody guess who the police union, champions of law and order, will endorse in 2028?

From what I heard, the Fraternal Order of Police immediately condemned Trump's blanket pardons/commutations for those violent insurrectionists, especially for the ones who harmed police.Now it's up to local and state law enforcement to jail them again. With the extremely high recidivism rates that we can expect from them (indeed, several of them have expressed the intention of buying lots of guns and of returning to their communities to "clean them up"), most of them should be convicted of new violent crimes. Indeed, at least one has already been arrested for gun law violations based on his past convictions of violent crimes.The up-side of that is that they will be convicted of state and local laws which the President has no pardon power over (which is why Trump's co-conspirators in the state election law cases kept trying to get their cases moved up to a federal court). Interestingly, there is no federal law against murder, only state laws, so the President shouldn't be able to pardon someone convicted of murder.
The down-side is that we will see a big spike in the rate of violent crimes. Lots of collateral damage while cleaning up Trump's mess.

Yeah, their words really really really impress me.So, here’s the really really really difficult question . . . can anybody guess who the police union, champions of law and order, will endorse in 2028?

The police are not and have never been servants of the people.They are and have always been the servants of capital. Those in power give them the State's monopoly on violence, and they maintain the status quo. Sure, that means sometimes a person is prosecuted for an actual crime that we'd all agree was bad. Stability is good for business, and the police are entrusted with keeping the workforce stable. Good workers and consumers, nobody calling for real systemic change. No Luigis.At other times it has meant returning a slave to their "master."At other times it means racial profiling and over-policing specific areas to reinforce stereotypes that prevent the working class from uniting against the owner class.The police are and have always been oppressors. Sometimes people become cops with good intentions. Those good intentions are either perverted, or erased, or the person stops being a cop altogether. At a minimum, the "good cops" remain silent for their own protection while knowing that their colleagues are inflicting harm.American police have been trained in the past decades to escalate every situation with virtually no actual training on the law. Most of them don't know or care what rights citizens are supposed to have - they'll use any trick to justify whatever force they feel like applying for any reason, including constitutionally-protected activities like recording in public, speech they officer personally doesnt like, or the classic "existing while black."They've been infiltrated by neo-nazis and the klan since those organizations existed, and people of that sort have been cops since the beginning.They've been primed to be tyrants and to follow tyrannical orders."Law and order" is a dogwhistle for selective and targeted enforcement, and there are degrees of privilege. Targeted minorities get hit the most. The wealthy get affected...almost not at all. Occasional token "justice," usually something like a fine that's counted as simply the cost of doing business. Wage theft is the single largest form of property theft in the US, and it's barely ever prosecuted.The police are not your friends. Never talk to the police beyond what is very strictly legally necessary. Remember that police are legally allowed to lie to you, and will do so. Nothing you say to a cop is legally allowed to be used in your defense, it can only ever be used to hurt you. Never allow a cop into your home and never ever open your door to a cop unless they have a warrant actually signed by a judge. Be prepared for the police to actually violate the law and your rights, without suffering any consequences. Record every interaction with police, and this is one of the few cases I'll advocate for using cloud storage - cops will steal your phone and delete your recordings if they can.Find neighbors, friends, and other community members who are similarly concerned. Build up support networks. help each other. Educate each other. We're running a repugnant combination of Hitler's rise in Germany and the post-Soviet Russian collapse into oligarchy. Do not comply in advance. Prepare to resist, and to be capable of resisting. None of us can do so on our own, and the modern age makes it even harder to be self-sufficient, but we're going to be faced with economic issues and reduced government safety nets (even below the pathetic "normal" level of American social safety nets). Learn and practice digital privacy and security so that you can speak out online without being targeted as easily.Americans are trained to trust our institutions and authorities. "They cant do that."Remember that slavery is still legal under the US constitution when it's a "as a punishment for crime".They can. They have before. They will again.We'd all best start believing in late-stage-capitalist dystopias.
We're in one.

Well, ermmm, . . . luckily for us, . . . the American military, brave brave brave protectors of democracy, upholders of liberty, and guardians of freedom, . . .. . . why they, . . . THEY have our backs. THEY won't be used as mindless corporate stooges!

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Trump Orders 1,500 Active-Duty Troops to Border Ahead of Pentagon Security Plan Deadline | Military.com

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(for the love of god Rahvin, . . . we're in trouble)