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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control

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Author Topic:   Gun Control
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 31 of 310 (668987)
07-26-2012 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:45 AM


Re: Inclusive
I agree. I can't argue with that. The Constitution does however have a history of modification. It's almost inevitable, assuming we end up with technology that would allow for handheld laser guns with the power to vaporise a person in one shot (that would be "arms" would it not? and thus you would have the right to own one, or twelve), that at SOME point, this particular part of the Constitution gets re-evaluated.
You wouldn't have to necessarily modify the Bill of Rights. Destructive Devices are already regulated along side the 2nd amendment, you just just tack on "and lasers", or whatever, to something like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:45 AM Briterican has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 32 of 310 (668988)
07-26-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:39 AM


Re: Cost?
I used buy my ammo much the same way, but phone instead of online.
Back a few (well maybe more than just a few) years ago when I was doing lots of competitive shooting it was not unusual for me to buy and use several bricks (1000 rounds) of ammo a month.
I don't see the problem?
Edited by jar, : fix terminology

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:39 AM Briterican has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 33 of 310 (668989)
07-26-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:46 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
crashfrog writes:
I see. So it's not only your fear of guns, it's your fear of embarassment.
I fail to see anything in this sentence that I can make any sense of. What does my alleged fear of embarrassment have to do with Australia having some of the strictest gun restrictions in the world?
I'm not trying to change you guys' collectively fucked-up minds... I'm just providing my opinion. I apologise that it gets your panties in a wad.
As for why I don't think my friend should be able to ebay his toys and go buy guns? - because toys are fun, not deadly. (don't have the patience to reply separately to CS's post asking that).
I like how you guys have attacked me personally on this topic and pretty much anyone dissenting from your view. It is an example of the type of American politics that I'm so pleased to be away from.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:46 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:54 AM Briterican has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 310 (668990)
07-26-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:45 AM


Re: Inclusive
It's almost inevitable... that at SOME point, this particular part of the Constitution gets re-evaluated.
Well, there's a procedure by which the Constitution becomes amended. You'd have to convince a lot of people that the risk of a handful of nuts with firearms (or laser arms, I guess) outweighed the cost of ending a uniquely American tradition and the risks of disarming the populace and leaving them unable to defend themselves. If you could convince people that it was worth it I guess you could change the Constitution. But you can't even convince any of us that it would be worth it. You've barely even tried.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:45 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:56 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 41 by onifre, posted 07-26-2012 11:09 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 56 by xongsmith, posted 07-26-2012 11:57 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 310 (668991)
07-26-2012 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:52 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
I fail to see anything in this sentence that I can make any sense of.
I'm simply noting your new justification for disarming Americans: other countries do it, and the people of those countries disapprove of American gun ownership, and as a result when you're in those countries you feel embarrassed to be identified as an American.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:52 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 11:04 AM crashfrog has replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


(1)
Message 36 of 310 (668992)
07-26-2012 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:52 AM


Re: Inclusive
crashfrog writes:
But you can't even convince any of us that it would be worth it. You've barely even tried.
I never intended to. I only intended to express my attitude towards the topic. I'm not a political activist, and I don't live in the states presently. What you do is your own business. All I ever intended to do was add my voice to the many around the world that view the entrenched attitudes on this topic as unfortunate, and backwards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:52 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 11:01 AM Briterican has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 310 (668993)
07-26-2012 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Briterican
07-26-2012 10:56 AM


Re: Inclusive
All I ever intended to do was add my voice to the many around the world that view the entrenched attitudes on this topic as unfortunate, and backwards.
And it's the fact that you can't explain why that led me to characterize your argument as inchoate and fear-based. You've given no evidence whatsoever that I'm wrong about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 10:56 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 11:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


(3)
Message 38 of 310 (668994)
07-26-2012 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:54 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
crashfrog writes:
I'm simply noting your new justification for disarming Americans: other countries do it, and the people of those countries disapprove of American gun ownership, and as a result when you're in those countries you feel embarrassed to be identified as an American.
There are so many fallacies in this statement... let's see...
I never suggested disarming Americans, therefore I need no justification for something I didn't suggest. What I DID was suggest that the pro-gun attitude is considered insane by many of us outside the US, and a chunk inside as well.
Other countries disarm, and the people of those countries disapprove of American gun ownership - again, it misses the point. The point is not that other countries disapprove, the point is that SO many other countries have moved on from this frontier mentality and have found more a more peaceful society by rejecting the notion that well-armed means well-safe.
...as a result, when you're in those countries you feel embarrassed to be an American - THAT point is close to being right. People in the last week have asked me several times, "So when you were in Texas, could you buy a gun in a bank? in a Wal-Mart? yes? CRAZY!!" - and I simply have to agree with them, it is crazy.
Bowing out now, I know how this will go, each sentence will be nitpicked, and unwarranted conclusions will be reached about what I've said. I'm tired of having to reiterate the fact that I am expressing a personal opinion, and have no desire or interest in changing yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:54 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 11:35 AM Briterican has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(6)
Message 39 of 310 (668995)
07-26-2012 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:28 AM


Re: Us poor scared people
What other explanation is there but fear when someone opposed gun ownership
I don't fear it, I find it stupid to arm civilians. Period. Has nothing to do with fear, at all.
Civilians cannot judge a situation properly to be allowed to defend themselves with a gun. Police officers and military personel have a hard enough time doing it and they are actually trained to do so.
Civilians should not be allowed to carry out deadly force when they see fit.
Hunting rifle, I'm cool with it - to include shotguns. But handguns for defense or to rise up against the US is stupid.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:28 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 40 of 310 (668997)
07-26-2012 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 11:01 AM


Re: Inclusive
crashfrog writes:
And it's the fact that you can't explain why that led me to characterize your argument as inchoate and fear-based. You've given no evidence whatsoever that I'm wrong about that.
You know what a PRATT is yes? well, in this case I wouldn't say I've refuted this point 1,000 times, but at least 3. In this thread AND the other thread, I have posted a link to a map of mass shootings in America... far more than you'll find in any other country. THAT is my evidence that there is something wrong with regard to guns and America.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 11:01 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 11:14 AM Briterican has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 41 of 310 (668998)
07-26-2012 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 10:52 AM


Re: Inclusive
u'd have to convince a lot of people that the risk of a handful of nuts with firearms (or laser arms, I guess) outweighed the cost of ending a uniquely American tradition and the risks of disarming the populace and leaving them unable to defend themselves.
Well since 85% of us think Jesus is coming back to save us all, this may be a futile attempt at persuading a large group of idiots. America makes me sad because of this, and the gun control issues, and the homophobia, and the racism, and the fat people.
But you can't even convince any of us that it would be worth it.
You don't think it's worth it not having armed civiians?
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 10:52 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 11:20 AM onifre has replied

  
ScientificBob
Member (Idle past 4263 days)
Posts: 48
From: Antwerp, Belgium
Joined: 03-29-2011


(1)
Message 42 of 310 (668999)
07-26-2012 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
07-26-2012 8:58 AM


quote:
I mean, I get it - you're scared of guns
No. I'm scared of widely available guns. I'm scared of psychopaths getting a hold of them, which is something that is ridiculously easy in the US. Hence all the killing sprees like last week.
quote:
When you carry a rifle, everybody knows that you are
Did the people in Denver know?
quote:
that's the reason why so many Americans are killed by handguns
Why is the number of americans killed by gunfire so widely out of proportion compared to the rest of the first world?
Personally, I don't believe the US has more psychopathic lunatics. It's just that guns are so mainstream that everyone can easily get them.
This seems logical to me. If anyone has another explanation, I'ld be glad to hear it.
quote:
which is unique in that it protects, in perpetuity, the military capacity of the American people to violently overthrow our own government. I know that you don't have anything similar. In fact it probably seems inconceivable that the Belgian government would ever legally enshrine the right of Belgians to violently overthrow the government.
That seems incredibly strange to me. Pointless even. Why make such a law? Would it be legal for you to violently overthrow the Obama administration? No, off course not.
And if the US would suddenly fall under the rule of a dictator or similar, where such action would indeed be called for, do you think this amendment would be worth anything at all? Would it still even exist?
Yes, it seems inconceivable that our government would install such a rule. But, in my view anyway, not for the reason you seem to suggest. But rather because such a right would be pointless anyway. Because governments that deserve to be overthrown violently usually don't allow you to do so, you see...
I get what you mean though. I understand the underlying idea that if the people have a stash of arms, it would be easier to start some revolution type thing to overthrow an occupier or dictator or whatever. I just don't think the pro's outweigh the cons here.
Bottom line for me is that it's far to easy to get a hold of guns in the US, that's basicly it. We have shooting ranges here in belgium as well you know. We also have hobbyists here who like to play with guns. But these people are heavily screened before they receive a gun. It's very controlled and it takes weeks before you actually get the gun that you buy.
I would not feel safe knowing that my neighbour has a military arsenal in his basement.
Edited by ScientificBob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 07-26-2012 8:58 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 310 (669000)
07-26-2012 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Briterican
07-26-2012 11:07 AM


Re: Inclusive
I have posted a link to a map of mass shootings in America... far more than you'll find in any other country. THAT is my evidence that there is something wrong with regard to guns and America.
But can you explain what and why is wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 11:07 AM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by onifre, posted 07-26-2012 11:18 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 60 by Briterican, posted 07-26-2012 12:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(3)
Message 44 of 310 (669001)
07-26-2012 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
07-26-2012 10:23 AM


o you have any idea how much that would cost? I realize its hyperbole, but the anti-gun crowd never seems to take the cost into account when they're all: "ZOMG, you could buy a grenade launcher, and a mini gun, and 100's of rifles n'stuff!".
Then it doesn't make much sense to have a law that says you can arm a militia to fight the government, when you can't even afford to buy a mini gun or lots of rifles n' stuff.
Who do you think you're going up against with a couple of handguns and a Winchester 30-30, an army of Hare Krishna's?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 10:23 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 11:21 AM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 45 of 310 (669002)
07-26-2012 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by New Cat's Eye
07-26-2012 11:14 AM


Re: Inclusive
Briterican writes:
I have posted a link to a map of mass shootings in America... far more than you'll find in any other country. THAT is my evidence that there is something wrong with regard to guns and America.
CS writes:
But can you explain what and why is wrong?
Jesus Christ (Slave's voice)
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 11:14 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-26-2012 11:27 AM onifre has replied

  
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