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Author Topic:   The Power of Belief
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 46 of 61 (667149)
07-03-2012 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Dogmafood
07-03-2012 9:20 AM


The power of believing you're superman
Who believes that they can run a mile in under a second?
Someone operating under the delusion they are superman/The Flash?

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 47 of 61 (667182)
07-03-2012 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
06-22-2012 7:27 AM


It has been my experience that the power of belief allows me to dare. The power of belief allows me to be surprised at what I am capable of accomplishing. When you are at the absolute bottom of your perceived physical strength or endurance, a bit of positive thinking and belief in oneself can bring about a positive outcome.
Someone once said, "why does the bumblebee fly?" "Because he believes he can, and no one told him he couldn't."

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 48 of 61 (667183)
07-03-2012 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Modulous
07-03-2012 1:12 PM


Re: The power of believing you're superman
That would be Sheldon on the show "Big Bang".

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 49 of 61 (667199)
07-04-2012 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by 1.61803
07-03-2012 4:55 PM


Extending the limit
When you are at the absolute bottom of your perceived physical strength or endurance, a bit of positive thinking and belief in oneself can bring about a positive outcome.
When I was a wee lad of 14 I was sent off to a boarding school that had a rigorous outdoor program. We snow shoed between 10 and 16 miles every Saturday during the winter. At the end of the season there was a 24 mile race between all the teams. I guess the idea was to bring you up to the end of your endurance and then demand that you go a little further. The dynamic of the team structure really worked well at dissuading you from giving up, which you could do if you had to but then the whole team forfeited. I thought it was rather barbaric and bordered on abuse (froze both ears and nearly lost a toe) but it sure exposed a reserve that I didn't know that I had.
There is also hysterical strength. An adrenaline boost triggered by fear that will enable someone to exert more force than they would otherwise be capable of. A sort of turbo charger when death is imminent. Usually causes a lot of damage though.

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 50 of 61 (667213)
07-04-2012 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Modulous
06-28-2012 8:35 AM


The power of projection
I agree that certain models of reality are more pleasant to believe than others. I could have a model of reality where I believe all humans are trustworthy and honourable.
Remember Victor Hugo's fictional character Jean Valjean and the impact that Bishop Myriel’s compassion and belief in his capacity to be a good person had on him?

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 51 of 61 (667383)
07-06-2012 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Dogmafood
07-04-2012 9:58 AM


Re: The power of projection
Remember Victor Hugo's fictional character Jean Valjean and the impact that Bishop Myriel’s compassion and belief in his capacity to be a good person had on him?
No, but I can picture such a thing.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 52 of 61 (667389)
07-06-2012 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Dogmafood
07-04-2012 9:58 AM


Re: The power of projection
Dogmafood writes:
Remember Victor Hugo's fictional character Jean Valjean and the impact that Bishop Myriel’s compassion and belief in his capacity to be a good person had on him?
That would be the power to infect others with confidence, again.

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 53 of 61 (667530)
07-09-2012 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
07-06-2012 4:49 PM


Re: The power of projection
That would be the power to infect others with confidence, again.
So belief has a cumulative quality sort of like gravity or has the potential to go viral.
For many, the accuracy of the belief does not seem to be as important as the appeal of the belief. In fact the power of belief may be illuminated to a greater degree by false beliefs or unfalsifiable beliefs. Just look at what the power of belief has done for the Catholic church or religion in general and it's adherents.
I find myself more and more hesitant to attack the religious beliefs of others. It seems cruel to destroy something that obviously brings them some comfort. I speak up when they try to foist them on me or my children but I wonder what purpose it serves to disabuse them of a belief that seems to serve them well.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 61 (667547)
07-09-2012 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
06-22-2012 7:27 AM


Belief provides comfort
Dogmafood writes:
How would you define the extent of your ability to effect the nature of your reality simply by adjusting your opinion of it?
For me, this gets back to my belief in a Higher Power.
First, I affirm that IF a Higher Power(God) exists, He, She, or It exists regardless of my beliefs, and so too the contrary. IF God didnt exist, no amount of wishing, chanting, or praying could make Him so.
Believing in a friendly, helpful God is comforting to me. Scriptures reaffirm this comfort.
(Phil 4:19 ESV--And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.)
It causes me discomfort when people show evidence that the Bible is any less than inspired. I take comfort, however, in the idea that I can imagine (at least partially) A loving and favorable God and that others also testify of Him. To suggest that this is all fantasy makes me very uncomfortable.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 55 of 61 (667551)
07-09-2012 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dogmafood
07-09-2012 8:24 AM


Re: The power of projection
Dogmafood writes:
For many, the accuracy of the belief does not seem to be as important as the appeal of the belief. In fact the power of belief may be illuminated to a greater degree by false beliefs or unfalsifiable beliefs.
I'm becoming convinced that that's true of creationism. It's a club where they can feel superior without knowing anything.
Dogmafood writes:
It seems cruel to destroy something that obviously brings them some comfort.
Some of them enjoy it when you try.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 61 (667554)
07-09-2012 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by ringo
07-09-2012 1:31 PM


Knowing and Believing
Ringo writes:
(Creationism)...It's a club where they can feel superior without knowing anything.
I think that first off, we all need to humble ourselves when discussing belief in a concept(or Being) greater than ourselves. Believers need to set aside their absolute convictions(and wishes) and educated folks need to behave as though talking to children and not learned(or unlearned) adults.
What is the main difference between knowing something to be true as opposed to merely believing it to be true?
Is it dishonest intellectually for one to claim that they KNOW that what they believe to be true is, in fact, true?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 57 of 61 (667557)
07-09-2012 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
07-09-2012 1:42 PM


Re: Knowing and Believing
Phat writes:
What is the main difference between knowing something to be true as opposed to merely believing it to be true?
A propos to the topic, a major difference is testing. No matter how strongly you believe you can jump the Mississippi, you'd be well advised to test your ability on a smaller body of water first. Once you know you can jump twenty feet, you might be justified in believing you can jump thirty, and so on.
If you believe God is a creationist, that's fine but if you think you know God is a creationist, you'd better have some test results to back you up.
Phat writes:
Is it dishonest intellectually for one to claim that they KNOW that what they believe to be true is, in fact, true?
Only if you know the difference between knowledge and belief.

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 58 of 61 (667661)
07-11-2012 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
07-09-2012 1:05 PM


Re: Belief provides comfort
Phat writes:
I take comfort, however, in the idea that I can imagine (at least partially) A loving and favorable God and that others also testify of Him. To suggest that this is all fantasy makes me very uncomfortable.
This is exactly one of the elements that I wanted to explore. Your belief, regardless of it's accuracy, brings you some comfort. For many that same belief is the cornerstone of their existence. Their entire world view is informed by it. They can overcome hardship or they can accomplish great things because of it. If holding such a belief allows someone to achieve these things what does it matter if the belief is right or wrong?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 59 of 61 (667695)
07-11-2012 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Dogmafood
07-11-2012 12:01 AM


Re: Belief provides comfort
Dogmafood writes:
If holding such a belief allows someone to achieve these things what does it matter if the belief is right or wrong?
Snake handlers believe that God will protect them. If they survive, God did it. If they die, it's because their faith wasn't strong enough. That's hardly what I'd call a constructive belief.

This message is a reply to:
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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 60 of 61 (667995)
07-15-2012 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
07-11-2012 11:57 AM


Re: Belief provides comfort
That's hardly what I'd call a constructive belief.
True enough. Knowledge is more powerful and useful and reliable than belief.
I am looking at those cases when, in the absence of knowledge, your chosen belief is the most important factor. As with a belief in an afterlife. I appreciate that it is a slippery slope.

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