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Author Topic:   Physical Laws ....What if they were different before?
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007

Message 16 of 309 (662166)
05-13-2012 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by foreveryoung
05-11-2012 10:44 PM

All of nature abides by the physical laws of the universe. Much of creationism is "proven" wrong because its claims violate known physical laws. What if there were a different set of values for all the constants and the equations for forces and fields and energies were slightly different at the beginning than they are today? Isn't it possible to have a functioning universe with a different set of constants and forms of the laws we have today? Are the constants and equations we have today the only possible ones that can produce a universe of matter, energy, space and force? If it is indeed possible for such a reality to exist, wouldn't a change of all the constants and equations to the ones we see today produce a catastrophe of epic proportions? Wouldn't such a scenario make perfectly stable stars turn into supernovas or put them on the path to becoming supernovas? Wouldn't such a scenario make the structure of the original universe undetectable to modern scientific instruments?
Jar has given a good answer: change leaves evidence. Where is the evidence? Evidence (empiricism) is an essential element of modern science.
A second essential element of modern science is mechanism. We need mechanistic explanations for why things happen. Perhaps fundamental constants could have changed, but what would have caused this? Would it have happened instantaneously throughout the whole universe, or would it have started at one point and propagated outward at the speed of light?
I doubt that the parameters could have changed more than an infinitesimal amount and still left a functioning universe, unless perhaps the parameters were all changed together in a very specific, precise way. (This is an application of the fine-tuning and anthropic principle arguments.)
This is food for thought for the anti-creationists. It is true that if all the physical laws and constants have been the same as they are today then the claims of creationism are impossible without invoking "poof" type magic. Of course, changing all the laws and constants would be "magic" because there is no physical mechanism that could make such a thing happen. But, what if there is more to reality than the physical world. What is there is another reality that cannot be detected by physical means? If so, such a change in laws and constants would not be magic; it would merely be the result of actions of beings in the non-physical world.
If you are going to allow abrupt physical changes with no physical mechanisms and leaving no physical evidence of change, you might as well adopt last-Thursdayism.
Edited by kbertsche, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by foreveryoung, posted 05-11-2012 10:44 PM foreveryoung has not replied

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