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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
Member (Idle past 145 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006

Message 13 of 563 (658498)
04-05-2012 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
04-05-2012 12:53 PM

Re: Intellectual Pursuit Leads Only To Vapid Uncertainty
Phat writes:
Can anyone deny anything that they don't want to deny to begin with, however?
If we can't the human race is doomed.
History shows the steady march of actuality trampling over wishful thinking doesn't it?
Think of the Catholic church and it's eventual acceptance of Heliocentrism despite a desperate desire to place humanity at the centre of the universe. Think of Darwinism and it's effect on cherished notions about the specialness of humans. What will neurology tell us about the illusion(?) of freewill as commonly conceived and how will this affect how we think of ourselves?
Facts are facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 04-05-2012 12:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 04-05-2012 1:22 PM Straggler has replied

Member (Idle past 145 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006

Message 16 of 563 (658501)
04-05-2012 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
04-05-2012 1:22 PM

Re: Intellectual Pursuit Leads Only To Vapid Uncertainty
Blimey Phat! That's pretty heavy.
But aside from the rather intensely expressed nature of your post you don't seem to be saying anything that isn't an expression of the "human condition" that plagues us all.
You want certainty. You want a reliable and present father figure. You want friends who want you as much as you want them. You want a perfect companion.
All of us no doubt think we want similar, albeit not identical, things. Perfect love. Material comfort. Those we love to live healthy happy lives. Etc. etc. Yet these are in many ways the concerns of those who are basically OK already.
There are many of us who are the victims of outrageous fortune in ways that we wouldn't wish on our worst enemies. Some of us have incurable and debilitating illnesses or have lost children or have suffered horrible experiences that we will never be able to reconcile ourselves to. We all have concerns and problems that at times seem all consuming to us personally no matter how objectively trivial they may be.
I think it is part of human nature to never be satisfied. I think that is partly what drives us. So even in the absence of devastations that we would all recognise as traumatic we create our own traumas by hankering for impossible perfections.
It is in our nature to be eternally disappointed.....
Phat on science writes:
These people seek to find truth. Yet they only find uncertainty apart from the false god of human reason.
But what you maybe need to accept is that the truth is innately uncertain and that human reason is the closest to "god" you are ever actually going to get.
I suppose you can embrace some notion of god in order to meet your otherwise unfulfilled needs and justify it on that basis.
But does that really work when you know that the basis of that acceptance is wishful thinking based on need rather than anything more demanding?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 04-05-2012 1:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

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