Faith posted in #122
quote:
Perhaps you have fallen for Roman Catholic bogus history. There was no Romanism until the papacy was officially established in the 7th century and there were plenty of canons developing before that.
Post 124
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It was when the Bishop of Rome got called Universal Bishop in 606 AD that the papacy was born and the Roman Church became a recognizable entity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Damasus_I
quote:
Pope Saint
Damasus I
Saintdamasus.jpg
19th-century imagined portrait
Papacy began 1 October 366
Papacy ended 11 December 384
Predecessor Liberius
Successor Siricius
Personal details
Birth name Damasus
Born c. 305
Rome
Died 11 December 384
Rome, Western Roman Empire
Pope Damasus I (/ˈdæməsəs/; c. 305 – 11 December 384) was Bishop of Rome, from October 366 to his death in 384. He presided over the Council of Rome of 382 that determined the canon or official list of Sacred Scripture.[1] He spoke out against major heresies in the church (including Apollinarianism and Macedonianism) and encouraged production of the Vulgate Bible with his support for St. Jerome. He helped reconcile the relations between the Church of Rome and the Church of Antioch, and encouraged the veneration of martyrs.
Later
quote:
Council of Rome of 382 and the Biblical canon
One of the important works of Pope Damasus was to preside in the Council of Rome of 382 that determined the canon or official list of Sacred Scripture. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, states: A council probably held at Rome in 382 under St. Damasus gave a complete list of the canonical books of both the Old Testament and the New Testament (also known as the 'Gelasian Decree' because it was reproduced by Gelasius in 495), which is identical with the list given at Trent. American Catholic priest and historian William Jurgens stated: "The first part of this decree has long been known as the Decree of Damasus, and concerns the Holy Spirit and the seven-fold gifts. The second part of the decree is more familiarly known as the opening part of the Gelasian Decree, in regard to the canon of Scripture: De libris recipiendis vel non recipiendis. It is now commonly held that the part of the Gelasian Decree dealing with the accepted canon of Scripture is an authentic work of the Council of Rome of 382 A.D. and that Gelasius edited it again at the end of the fifth century, adding to it the catalog of the rejected books, the apocrypha. It is now almost universally accepted that these parts one and two of the Decree of Damasus are authentic parts of the Acts of the Council of Rome of 382 A.D. (Jurgens, Faith of the Early Fathers)
St. Jerome, the Vulgate and the Canon
Pope Damasus appointed St Jerome as his confidential secretary. Invited to Rome originally to a synod of 382 convened to end the schism of Antioch, he made himself indispensable to the pope, and took a prominent place in his councils. Jerome spent three years (382–385) in Rome in close intercourse with Pope Damasus and the leading Christians. Writing in 409, Jerome remarked, "A great many years ago when I was helping Damasus, bishop of Rome with his ecclesiastical correspondence, and writing his answers to the questions referred to him by the councils of the east and west..."[19]
In order to put an end to the marked divergences in the western texts of that period, Damasus encouraged the highly respected scholar Jerome to revise the available Old Latin versions of the Bible into a more accurate Latin on the basis of the Greek New Testament and the Septuagint, resulting in the Vulgate. According to Protestant biblical scholar, F.F. Bruce, the commissioning of the Vulgate was a key moment in fixing the biblical canon in the West.[20]
Jerome devoted a very brief notice to Damasus in his De Viris Illustribus, written after Damasus' death: "he had a fine talent for making verses and published many brief works in heroic metre. He died in the reign of the emperor Theodosius at the age of almost eighty".[21]
He was perhaps the most powerful pusher of the Council of Nicaea, when the Eastern Empire seemed to have more supporters of Arius than the Roman Catholic Nicaean invention. (nevermind the Manichaeans and others outnumbered Catholics/Eastern Orthodox as well)
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Relations with the Eastern Church
The Eastern Church, in the person of St. Basil of Caesarea, earnestly sought the aid and encouragement of Damasus against an apparently triumphant Arianism. Damasus, however, harbored some degree of suspicion against the great Cappadocian Doctor of the Church. In the matter of the Meletian Schism at Antioch, Damasus—together with St. Athanasius, the patriarch of Alexandria, and his successor, Peter II of Alexandria—sympathized with the party of Paulinus as more sincerely representative of Nicene orthodoxy. On the death of Meletius he sought to secure the succession for Paulinus and to exclude Flavian.[23] He supported the appeal of the Christian senators to Emperor Gratian for the removal of the altar of Victory from the Senate House,[24] and lived to welcome the famous edict of Theodosius I, "De fide Catholica" (27 February 380),[25] which proclaimed as the religion of the Roman State that doctrine which Saint Peter had preached to the Romans and of which Damasus was head.[12]
During his papacy, Peter II of Alexandria was obliged for a while to seek refuge in Rome from the persecuting Arians. He was received by Damasus, who sympathised with him and gave him support against the Arians.[12] This reconciled the relations between the Catholic Church and the Church of Antioch, which both supported the Church of Alexandria.
The letter from Jerome is dated 376 or 377.
(Faith will ignore this one)
quote:
Letter of Jerome to Damasus
Further information: Letter of Jerome to Pope Damasus
The letters from Jerome to Damasus are examples of the primacy of the See of Peter:
Yet, though your greatness terrifies me, your kindness attracts me. From the priest I demand the safe-keeping of the victim, from the shepherd the protection due to the sheep. Away with all that is overweening; let the state of Roman majesty withdraw. My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross. As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the church is built! This is the house where alone the paschal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. But since by reason of my sins I have betaken myself to this desert which lies between Syria and the uncivilized waste, I cannot, owing to the great distance between us, always ask of your sanctity the holy thing of the Lord. Consequently I here follow the Egyptian confessors who share your faith, and anchor my frail craft under the shadow of their great argosies. I know nothing of Vitalis; I reject Meletius; I have nothing to do with Paulinus. He that gathers not with you scatters; he that is not of Christ is of Antichrist.[22]
Faith will ignore the Eastern Emperor declaring that ONLY Nicene Christianity is to be legal. (Feb 27, 380)
Faith will ignore the fact that this declaration came BEFORE the First Council of Constantinople (May 381)
Yet she still says the Councils were "fair" and "not stacked".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I
quote:
Definition of orthodoxy and de-legitimation of non-orthodox Christian creeds
On 27 February 380, together with Gratian and Valentinian II, Theodosius issued the decree "Cunctos populos", the so-called Edict of Thessalonica, recorded in the Codex Theodosianus xvi.1.2. This declared the Nicene Trinitarian Christianity to be the only legitimate imperial religion and the only one entitled to call itself Catholic. Other Christians he described as "foolish madmen".[33] He also ended official state support for the traditional polytheist religions and customs.[34]
On 26 November 380, two days after he had arrived in Constantinople, Theodosius expelled the non-Nicene bishop, Demophilus of Constantinople, and appointed Meletius patriarch of Antioch, and Gregory of Nazianzus, one of the Cappadocian Fathers from Cappadocia (today in Turkey), patriarch of Constantinople. Theodosius had just been baptized, by bishop Ascholius of Thessalonica, during a severe illness, as was common in the early Christian world.[citation needed]
In May 381, Theodosius summoned a new ecumenical council at Constantinople (see First Council of Constantinople) to repair the schism between East and West on the basis of Nicene orthodoxy.[35] "The council went on to define orthodoxy, including the mysterious Third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, who, though equal to the Father, 'proceeded' from Him, whereas the Son was 'begotten' of Him."[36] The council also "condemned the Apollonarian and Macedonian heresies, clarified jurisdictions of the state church of the Roman Empire according to the civil boundaries of dioceses and ruled that Constantinople was second in precedence to Rome."[36] The death of Valens, the Arians' protector, probably damaged the standing of the Homoian faction.
Interesting timeline.
It got more intense later
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Between 389–392 he promulgated the "Theodosian decrees"[37] (instituting a major change in his religious policies),[38]:116 which removed non-Nicene Christians from church office and abolished the last remaining expressions of Roman religion by making its holidays into workdays, banned blood sacrifices, closed Roman temples, confiscated temple endowments and disbanded the Vestal Virgins.[39] The practices of taking auspices and witchcraft were punished. Theodosius refused to restore the Altar of Victory in the Senate House, as asked by non-Christian senators.[38]:115
....
In 393 he issued a comprehensive law that prohibited any public non-Christian religious customs,[48] and was particularly oppressive to Manicheans.[49] He is likely to have discontinued the ancient Olympic Games, whose last record of celebration was in 393, though archeological evidence indicates that some games were still held after this date.[50]
The article, on the First Council of Constantinople, says Emperor Theodosius' Constantinople was NOT the religion of Pope Damascus, quite the contrary:
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Theodosius' strong commitment to Nicene Christianity involved a calculated risk because Constantinople, the imperial capital of the Eastern Empire, was solidly Arian. To complicate matters, the two leading factions of Nicene Christianity in the East, the Alexandrians and the supporters of Meletius in Antioch, were "bitterly divided ... almost to the point of complete animosity".[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/.../First_Council_of_Constantinople
From the recognized SEAT OF PETER sat Pope Damascus, who rules from 366 to 384.
He is the Pope from the old Western Empire - Rome.
He is not to be confused with the Western Emperor.
The Church and State were never the same thing.
But the Roman Catholic Church leader, Pope Damascus had his strong pro-COUNCIL OF NICAEA views (366 on), while the East Roman Emperor Theodosius did not come to power until 379, and THEN THEODOSIUS DEMANDED HIS EMPIRE FOLLOW THE COUNCIL OF NICAEA (in 380 just before the stacked/LOADED Council in 381).
(Amazing considering his capital's people were overwhelmingly followers of the FACTION EXACTLY AND DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSITE the Nicaean decision)
And this timeline proved the Roman Catholic (recognized as the seat of Peter) Pope influenced the Empire.
But the Empire imposed the Council of Nicaea.
The same Pope dictated the Canon.
(Jerome wrote a letter to Rufinus saying that he disapproved of the Apocrypha but included it because the Pope made him. Jerome also wrote, elsewhere, that the Gospel of the Hebrews was the authentic Matthew, though he used the Greek Matthew in the Vulgate)
The New Testament in the King James was a Roman Catholic Papal dictate.
(Despite the 397 Council of Carthage, which followed the earlier ORIGINAL Papal dictates)
https://en.wikipedia.org/...ouncils_of_Carthage#Synod_of_397
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