Evolution and Specialness of Humanity

Hey Prophex, Ya, so? You are not unique by virtue of your species, you are unique because of your individuality. Try and kill a dog, I bet he will struggle, show fear, try and get away, plead with you... why do you think that is? It's because he is unique, he has value to himself, he doesn't want to die.You and me share the same uniqueness as individuals.
What you are failing to understand is the idea that just because we arose from natural means, does not mean that everything we experience and feel is now somehow false. Let me put it this way:
Lets leave out love and all the other high-minded crap. Lets talk about eating and shitting.Now, I have to eat to survive, it's a necessity imposed on me by evolution. Does this mean that I don't enjoy gourmet cuisine as much as I do? Because last time I checked I am still a fan of French cooking. In fact, I would go so far as to say, that good food is one of the highlights of my life.Now, even though that food is lovingly prepared, and I have an intense emotional reaction every time I eat it (I do, trust me ), it's still gonna come out the other end in a big stinky turd....So, what exactly about the fact that my culinary experience is based on totally naturalistic impulses and physical needs, makes my experience any less valuable or special?This message has been edited by Yaro, 10-19-2005 09:04 AM

Nothing. It's a good logical example.But how special is special anyway?In the end, my special feelings for skydaddy dried up like a turd, and became a depressing circle of empty and desperate rationalisation on behalf of him, which required all my psychological energy. So infact "special" became unhealthy. What a mind-job. False hopes can be dangerous.How special is special anyway? You can have the most wonderful feeling ever experienced, but if someone dropped a brick on your toe, then the pain would probably be a more intense experience, and right then, all you would be concentrating on is the intense natural agony of your rapidly ballooning toe. Your case is a good one; Shit happens. Prophex just needs to realize this fact.Special's okay, but it's all bullshit in the end, as we're ants on a matchstick, sailing in the pacific ocean. Enjoy it already. You're too young for contemplating all this crap Prophex. Why the hell should you have to figure it all out anyway? You need to check out your size man.You're a dot on a piece of paper ten sqillion miles².

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Now, even though that food is lovingly prepared, and I have an intense emotional reaction every time I eat it (I do, trust me ), it's still gonna come out the other end in a big stinky turd....

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For that sentence, Yaro, I love you more than words can express.lol!

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Special's okay, but it's all bullshit in the end, as we're ants on a matchstick, sailing in the pacific ocean. Enjoy it already. You're too young for contemplating all this crap Prophex. Why the hell should you have to figure it all out anyway? You need to check out your size man.

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You're a dot on a piece of paper ten sqillion miles2.

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It's part of growing up to realize that you aren't the center of the Universe.

It destroys any external means of significance. It means you're free--you're free to create your own significance. It's a hard, weighty task. Are you up to it? It's easy for some people (like my youngest brother), but hard for others (like me). It destroys the external significance. It means you're free--you're free to create your own significance. Relationships, expressions, feelings--they mean only what we put into them.It's the difference between being born with a "silver spoon in your mouth", and being born with nothing, having to work for it all, and feeling a sense of meaning in what you've done, what you've created.Have you ever felt a sense of accomplishment from completing a hard, but ultimately "meaningless" task? It became meaningful because of the work you put into it, because of the importance you placed on it.Try to think of an example of this from your life, and post it here if you would. I'll try to do the same thing. I have a bad memory, so nothing's coming up at the moment. One makes one's purpose. We choose meaning. It means... you have a lot of work to do. Instead, you're busy trying to deny your responsibility. Take a step out from behind the curtain and see if you can create the meaning for yourself.You have lots of friends here who will support you if you want to try.
And a lot of people with experience in doing exactly the same thing. Give it a shot.Ben

lol, thanx.Although, re-reading that post, I think I have had some "stinky turd experiences" that illicited an intense emotional reaction as well.

Brilliant.

I've long since thought that it would be worthwhile if we were able to attach a background musical track to accompany our posts. Your post brings that idea to the fore again.One isn't sure whether the it should a frontier-blazing rendition of The Valkyrie or a bootleg-version of the Sex Pistols 'Anarchy in the UK"I wonder how strongly you would hold to the validity of this approach if my 'meaning' involves me stepping from behind the curtain in your living room and robbing your stereo at gunpoint...

For a possibly different viewpoint, can I ask you to read a Pastoral letter written by Bishop Sims? In it he explains why there is no conflict between your view of humanity as something special and the TOE.it can be found Here.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'd suggest that you read through one of the MANY atheist-morality threads. Choice is never constraint free.If your meaning involves robbing me at gunpoint, then your meaning also better involve you being locked up in jail. Otherwise, I would suggest that you chose your meaning without enough thought.

Listen buddy, this is a Colt 45 I've got pointed at you. I ain't got time to jaw. Well okay then - just a for a minute...Choice not constraint free?. Indeed it is not. But as few constraints as I can gat away with is my entitlement under the system you recommend. Self-defined meaning? I would prefer to spend my time and cunning planning robberies in a way that ensures maximum return and minimum amount of time behind bars (and it's not all that difficult) Spending time worrying about morality won't pay for the condo I have my eye on..My meaning - get your kicks where you can and don't let any other try to stop me.You may disagree with it, your 'meaning' can try and stop me. Your havwe that right under your system. But surely your system of meaning as self-defined cannot require my meaning to be externally (to me) defined (..by you and your like minded buddies). You said IIRC external source of meaning was destroyed.Now quit arguing and hand over the stereo will ya...

I have no idea what you're trying to show here. If that's what seems meaningful to you, so be it. What's your point?If you want to discuss how individual choice of meaning could possibly work in a society of people, then again I suggest you take your thoughts to an "atheistic morality" thread. The discussion here is about prophex. If you're suggesting that prophex choose a meaning like robbing others... then you you're missing what this young man is all about.I'm quite confident prophex has the ability to choose wisely. If I wasn't confident, I wouldn't recommend him to try and choose for himself. There's a lot of responsibility in making that choice, and not everybody is capable of it.Ben

But prophex,do or don't you believe us when we say that we don't feel about it this way? Do you think we are not sincere or does it mean that we are deluded or that we refuse to see the "real" implications of ToE?Either this whole negative approach exists only in your head (and the ones of people who think the same way), or it is a reality and somehow we miss the point. In which case we would act counter to your pessimistic scenario(???)

Perhaps a recording of "My Way."

I don't know the chap but I'll take your word for it. But whats with this 'wise' stuff. Surely that's self-defined too - seeing as we're dumping the external and going internal. This has nothing to do with morality Mr. Soon-to-be an-stereo-ex-owner. You were saying we can define our own meaning. I'm doing that and your implying now that I should adhere to some absolute, external thing called "the dog in the street knows it wisdom"Is my wisdom not as valid as your wisdom? I'll parasite off society and their stereos for as long as I want/can but I don't give a monkeys for it's wisdom or morality.My way is as valid to me as your way is to you. You do agree don't you?