That sounds like a Catch-22 to me. There's no proof that God exists until you believe that He does exist, and then and only then does He provide proof. But you need rationally to have some evidence to begin with to have any reason to believe in God. But He won't give you the evidence until you believe in Him.
It has all the hallmarks of a catch-22. But God is very good as resolving catch-22's. Caught in the crossfire by the pharisees who hauled a woman caught in adultery before him, he was asked, "the law says this woman should be stoned - what do you say?" Jesus seemingly had two potential answers:
"Stone her according to the law" his powerbase - a ministry based on love and forgiveness - which held crowds captive to him and protected him would have dissolved. His protection gone he could have been picked off and killed
"ignore the law - don't stone her" Blasphemy. Penalty for blasphemy? Stoning.
Catch-22. Jesus replied "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. The mob melted away.
As I've pointed out a number of times, you cannot believe without a reason to believe. Doing otherwise is irrational like you say. But God doesn't require you to believe that which you cannot. He invented rational after all. Take the man in Romans 7. Look at what he is realising. He is realising that God has laws and that Gods laws are indeed good and that he is unable to keep them. God is the one who draws back the curtains so that the man can see that. God does this. You don't have to work up the evidence yourself. God is the one who will attempt to provide.
A man can grip onto the curtains and keep them closed. He may look at the vast oceans of sea and stars for example and his only hearts response is to stand in awed dumbstruckness. Every honest heart bows to this. And all the theories in the world about the accidental nature of everything are rendered nothing when a mans heart looks out like this. Because this vista bypasses intellect and goes straight to the heart. And the very pain of this causes sinful man to do what sinful Adam did when faced with this attribute of God - his very infiniteness.
He hides.
He turns from that within him which would want to call out to this infinity - to plead that it provide a place for him when all it seems to tell him is how insignificant he is - when something within him KNOWS he must be significant. He instead weaves all his philosophies and addictions into a fig leaf to cover himself with.
For the man who doesn't pull curtains, who faces that which he knows simply because he knows it, his fate is to be drawn nearer to God. It will hurt. It will be uncomfortable. There will be turning away again. Excuses will be formed. Labour is a painful thing. But in the measure man doesn't run away, he WILL be drawn. God wants him very badly. 4 Gospel writers aim their testimonies at the cross - the place where God showed just how badly he wants man.
You don't have to intellectualise it. Don't worry if your intellect stands in the way. It's your hearts response that God deals with. And if your heart doesn't say no even though your intellect, as mine did, struggles all the way - then no matter. God can cut through that like a hot knife through butter. There is no obstacle he cannot remove once you don't say no. He will not remove your free will. Not now - not ever.
As Faith says, I'm trying to develop in words that which I know about God. So think of the deepest pleasure you've ever had in your life - and imagine how much any attempt to explain it to someone in words falls far short of adequately describing it.
But one must persevere...
Would you want God to be true Robin?
I predict that that question will immediately pull up a raft of intellectual objections along the lines of: cop-out, weakness, loss of dependence, Religion (uugh!), Stepford Wife, fairytale. No matter. What does your heart want?
You don't have to answer the question to me. You've already answered the question to him. If somewhere buried in amongst the debris was the tiniest glimmer of heart that actually said yes, then he'll work with that.
Another piece of advice should you want it. Suspend disbelief. Go read the bible - say the Gospel of John. Slowly, a page or so a night. But with an attitude of suspended disbelief. In your state of suspended disbelief, you can accept as true every word you read on the page. When Jesus ('the Word' incidently) turns water into wine, then suspended disbelief allows you to accept that he did and perhaps see the significance of him announcing for the first time publicly, that he was God. And wonder at the lack of reaction from many around him. Stay the intellectual arguments that say this is impossible. Ponder instead. Ponder perhaps on the significance of God actually stepping out of eternity, taking the form of a man (orders of magnitude lower - remember the seas and the stars) and coming to live amongst us. He must have had a reason to do it.
If you ask God ("if you are there") to assist you because a little bit of your heart wants him to be true- then he will. Possibly not in ways you expect or with the timing you expect. It is only after the fact that you can look back and see the many ways in which he drew you in. No matter. Heart response. If you want him, then you can have him. He can work with a glimmer of want.
He put the want in there after all. The God-shaped hole that everyone tries to fill with everything but God.
This message has been edited by iano, 15-Dec-2005 10:48 AM
This message has been edited by iano, 15-Dec-2005 11:04 AM
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