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Author Topic:   SOPA/PIPA and 'Intellectual Property'
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 824 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 271 of 303 (652386)
02-13-2012 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Tangle
02-13-2012 3:45 PM


Re: Another interesting example
that the removal of copyright would destroy Hollywood
What's so great about "Hollywood" and why should anyone care if it gets destroyed? All they are doing is rehashing old ideas now anyways. The only fresh/new ideas are indie films. "Ooh ooh! I want Toy Story 12 and then buy all the Toy Story 12 stuff at the store!" or "Oh Micheal Bay, PLEASE make another Transformers movie! Pretty please?!?!?!?!?!?! Only this time with MORE CGI explosions!"

"There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2012 3:45 PM Tangle has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 272 of 303 (652388)
02-13-2012 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Perdition
02-13-2012 4:09 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Surely you realize how absurd that is? The world where you can't make something at all because somebody else says they had the idea first and now they've legally enjoined anybody else from producing a competing product - even if they never actually release their own - is the world where it's harder and harder for anyone to create something.
This would lead to a stifling of innovation; what is my motivation for developing a game, or coming up with a concept (which is a bit of work) if that effort will not be rewarded, if it will, in fact, only serve to make Activision richer?
Your motivation is that it's your idea and if you don't do the work, nobody else will and your idea will never come to fruition. In other words your motivation is the same motivation that has always motivated artists - making something new.
It makes zero sense to say that you have less motivation in a world where you're free to make whatever you can imagine than you do in our world, where you can bust your ass to make something truly original, and then Activision comes in, asserts a spurious patent claim on your work that you're too poor to answer in court, and takes your profits (and control of your creation) right out of your hands.
Copyright is what stifles innovation, by taking away people's control over their own culture and ideas. To assert that the lack of copyright "stifles innovation" is both nonsensical and ahistorical, in that it overlooks how the world's most enduring artistic achievements occurred in societies that gave approximately zero copyright protection to anybody.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:09 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by hooah212002, posted 02-13-2012 4:20 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 282 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:53 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 273 of 303 (652391)
02-13-2012 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Tangle
02-13-2012 3:45 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Tangle writes:
And I never claimed it wasn't possible. I claimed - and still claim - that the removal of copyright would destroy Hollywood and that Lethal Weapon 18 would not get made in a world without it.
Poor little Hollywood, not making billions anymore, I weep for you...
But this thread is about copyright - this has nothing to do with copyright. This game is being developed under existing laws, I still doubt that it would be biilt if there was no copyright for the devlopers to protect future revenue.
Since they already have more than 4 times their aimed for budget, I'd advice them to make the game for twice the budget and keep the rest as profit, and give it away for free. Not having copyright would not have impacted the donations one bit.
I know a bit about the games industry and I would be extremely doubtful that a new game from an unknown developer could get this sort of funding or that games that take 3-5 years and $20m+ to develop (more usual than adventure games) could.
Like unknown developers could get that kind of money today, with nothing more than "let's make a shooter".
i also doubt that the public would have any confidence in the model if a game got canned before release (quite normal), was absolute crap because it had already been sold
Of course there are risks, but they are there today as well. You might not feel them directly, but indirectly you already pay for the flops the games industry produces.
or your mate also got it for free on the day of release.
Like we can't get it for free on the day of release right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2012 3:45 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2012 4:38 PM Huntard has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 824 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 274 of 303 (652392)
02-13-2012 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 4:16 PM


Re: Another interesting example
The world where you can't make something at all because somebody else says they had the idea first and now they've legally enjoined anybody else from producing a competing product - even if they never actually release their own - is the world where it's harder and harder for anyone to create something.
This is the world Apple wants. I HAVE NO INTENTION OF REHASHING AN APPLE BASH SESSION!!!!! I'm just sayin'.

"There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:16 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:21 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 275 of 303 (652394)
02-13-2012 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by hooah212002
02-13-2012 4:20 PM


Re: Another interesting example
This is the world Apple wants.
Agreed, it's the world every business wants.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by hooah212002, posted 02-13-2012 4:20 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 276 of 303 (652400)
02-13-2012 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Huntard
02-13-2012 4:19 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Well I'm not going round it all again - this is a really interesting business model and, like some of the music models now growing around the internet and performance, I'm sure some of these new models will work well.
But it's all happening without changing an atom of the copyright law and it all falls apart - imo - when the entire population has got used to free media easily available. (And no, neither of those two situations exist yet - not even close.)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:19 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:43 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 280 by hooah212002, posted 02-13-2012 4:50 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 277 of 303 (652402)
02-13-2012 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Tangle
02-13-2012 4:38 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Tangle writes:
Well I'm not going round it all again - this is a really interesting business model and, like some of the music models now growing around the internet and performance, I'm sure some of these new models will work well.
But it's all happening without changing an atom of the copyright law...
You think it would've turned out different had Tim Schafer said: "listen, we would like to make a game, but we need money. Once we reach $400.000 we will make the game and give it away for free, all extra donations will be spent on the game, and if we get more than $x we will keep the rest as profit.
and it all falls apart - imo - when the entire population has got used to free media easily available. (And no, neither of those two situations exist yet - not even close.)
Yes we are, the entire population already has free media easily available. Must I list the top 100 most popular torrents on pirate bay as an example?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2012 4:38 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2012 5:02 PM Huntard has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 278 of 303 (652404)
02-13-2012 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Huntard
02-13-2012 4:12 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Uhm, isn't this the case now, with copyright intact?
Well, theoretically, I could sell my copyright to Activision and still get paid for my contribution.
But yeah, in general, which is why I'm in favor of copyright revision, but in no way am I in favor of copyright removal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:12 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:49 PM Perdition has replied
 Message 281 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:50 PM Perdition has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 279 of 303 (652405)
02-13-2012 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Perdition
02-13-2012 4:46 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Perdition writes:
Well, theoretically, I could sell my copyright to Activision and still get paid for my contribution.
And you could set up a donation system and still get paid for your contribution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:46 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:56 PM Huntard has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 824 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 280 of 303 (652406)
02-13-2012 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Tangle
02-13-2012 4:38 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Without sounding rude or anything, it appears to me that you need to venture into the seedy underbelly of Piracy from an insiders perspective. Everything you've said is said from the standpoint of someone who knows nothing of the piracy community. If you took the time to poke around, you'd notice quickly that a good percentage of habitual pirates would gladly pay for content that was in a consumer friendly format. The only reason people are "used to" free content is because right now the PAID model is fucking garbage. Actors and musicians still make millions, all the while crying about copyright infringement just so they can make more millions. Fuck making something people want, I want money.

"There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2012 4:38 PM Tangle has not replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 281 of 303 (652407)
02-13-2012 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Perdition
02-13-2012 4:46 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Well, theoretically, I could sell my copyright to Activision and still get paid for my contribution.
You could sell it anyway, provided you don't tell them what it is until you get paid.
But, look, if you're willing to blab it, I don't see why you should get paid at all. You shouldn't be able to control an idea like that, and our society is measurably worse off because of the mistaken notion that you can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:46 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:58 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 282 of 303 (652408)
02-13-2012 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 4:16 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Surely you realize how absurd that is? The world where you can't make something at all because somebody else says they had the idea first and now they've legally enjoined anybody else from producing a competing product - even if they never actually release their own - is the world where it's harder and harder for anyone to create something.
Yes, both extremes are bad. Perpetual copyright is bad, removal of copyright is bad. I advocate for a revision of copyright.
Your motivation is that it's your idea and if you don't do the work, nobody else will and your idea will never come to fruition.
But why would I want to do any work, when the end result is that some other company will take what I've invested time and money into, make it faster and cheaper, because they already have all the work I did, take credit for it, make a profit, and leave me poorer and weaker than had I never even started? Yeah, I may be able to go buy the game and play it and see the world I created brought to life, but that's a bit bittersweet, isn't it?
It makes zero sense to say that you have less motivation in a world where you're free to make whatever you can imagine
provided you have the money and resources to do so
than you do in our world, where you can bust your ass to make something truly original, and then Activision comes in, asserts a spurious patent claim on your work that you're too poor to answer in court, and takes your profits (and control of your creation) right out of your hands.
But at least your idea will come to fruition...and isn't that your motivation?
Copyright is what stifles innovation, by taking away people's control over their own culture and ideas. To assert that the lack of copyright "stifles innovation" is both nonsensical and ahistorical, in that it overlooks how the world's most enduring artistic achievements occurred in societies that gave approximately zero copyright protection to anybody.
Perpetual copyright does. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why can't we just reform copyright law, rather than deciding that we'd rather have no copyright law at all, making it nearly impossible for the low-funded, unknown artist to make a living off their effort?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:16 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 283 of 303 (652409)
02-13-2012 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Huntard
02-13-2012 4:49 PM


Re: Another interesting example
And you could set up a donation system and still get paid for your contribution.
Cool. Cuz as it stands, I do have a pretty cool idea for an MMORPG. Wanna send me some money to get it started?
I can't say much, I don't want Activision to steal it, but trust me, it's pretty awesome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 4:49 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Huntard, posted 02-13-2012 5:00 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 284 of 303 (652411)
02-13-2012 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 4:50 PM


Re: Another interesting example
But, look, if you're willing to blab it, I don't see why you should get paid at all. You shouldn't be able to control an idea like that, and our society is measurably worse off because of the mistaken notion that you can.
That's my point, I don't want to blab it, but then what makes a prospective investor want to send me money?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 4:50 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 285 of 303 (652413)
02-13-2012 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Perdition
02-13-2012 4:56 PM


Re: Another interesting example
Perdition writes:
Cool. Cuz as it stands, I do have a pretty cool idea for an MMORPG. Wanna send me some money to get it started?
I can't say much, I don't want Activision to steal it, but trust me, it's pretty awesome.
No, sorry, don't fancy another MMO. However, make it a single player RPG and I might be tempted. What's the budget you're aiming for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Perdition, posted 02-13-2012 4:56 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Perdition, posted 02-14-2012 12:29 PM Huntard has replied

  
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