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Author Topic:   Supernatural/paranormal activity and the power of suggestion
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 1 of 33 (646728)
12-31-2011 1:03 PM


I am hesitant to write this because it makes me look like a complete wuss.
Recently, I have been reading "creepy/scary" stories. I have never quite been one who is scared of the dark, even as a child. I was never one that believed in boogie-man or any of that shit. I still don't. However, since I have been reading this stuff, I am getting these.....fears, if you will. When I walk by a car at night in my parking garage, I feel as though something is in there looking at me. I get the same feeling when I walk by a dark room or dark corner. The thing is: I know full well that the shit is ALL in my head. What I think I see (the images in my head) are simply what is conjured up from the shit I read. For example: this past week at work I was the only one there, as the rest of the company was on shut down. Whenever I would walk the halls to go smoke outside, I constantly had chills run down my spine when I thought about what could be around the corner or behind that closed door. I have to repeatedly remind myself that I am being an idiot and the shit in my head is just that: my mind playing tricks on me.
So, this all has got me thinking. It seems very apparent to me, now, that all the stories of paranormal activity, all the stories of people seeing supernatural activity all must be the mind playing tricks. I have no doubt that what people claim to be seeing, they "really" see it. It is very real to them. It's just that some are more open to suggestion than others. I am apparently one of those people, at least to some extent.
We all know how powerful the mind is and there is, as of yet, no definitive proof or evidence of anything supernatural outside of the minds of those involved.
I have a few more thoughts about this but I don't yet know how to put them into words that would make sense so hopefully they will get hashed out if this thread takes off. I would like for this to go on the science side so we don't get bogged down with "faith" or "belief" as this thread is intended to target exactly that.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 2 of 33 (646729)
01-04-2012 9:18 PM


Not a topic of interest, I presume....

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 5 of 33 (646732)
01-05-2012 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminModulous
01-05-2012 11:51 AM


After looking through the sub-topics just now, you are correct in saying that it doesn't really fit anywhere "neatly". I will request, though, that we can attempt to refrain from, for lack of better terminology, "feelings". I guess the best example I can think of and exactly what I do NOT want this topic to be about is "jesus/YHWH/god/allah is factually real because I feel it/I saw it/I have a personal relationship with it". Secondly, this isn't solely about supernatural entities of a religious nature. I included that because I think the two go hand in hand. I'm hoping that is why you suggested the Coffee House and not because it's me proposing the topic.
As I said in the OP: I haven't exactly hashed this whole thing out yet because this is the only place I have brought it up. I am hoping that in engaging with people who have had somewhat similar experiences, I can begin to piece together more of my thoughts on the subject.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminModulous, posted 01-05-2012 7:34 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 7 of 33 (646734)
01-05-2012 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AdminModulous
01-05-2012 7:34 PM


I'm confused, I thought you wanted to discuss the scientific basis for certain feelings viz 'the heeby jeebies'. Surely feelings are going to be discussed. If it is to be a debate, what position do you expect your opponents to take if not 'I had a feeling there was a spirit/deity/whatever therefore there was'? If you want to propose a debate to argue against that position, surely some people should be permitted to argue for it?
Yea, that's why I said "for lack of better terminology" because the very topic IS about feelings, but I want to examine why it is we have those feelings. I don't want it to go into "well those feelings mean it's real" if that makes any sense. yes, the sensation is real, but it says nothing about there actually being something real (i.e. physical/not a product of your imagination) causing that sensation.
Do you just want this to be a discussion about the scientific account, rather than a debate?
Either/or.
Are you still opposed to it going there?
Nope. That is fine.
Since the question of fingerprint analysis made it over to it, I suppose we could squeeze into the Is It Science? forum. There we can discuss whether scientific explanations for the spooky feelings you discuss are really scientific or something.
That would be even better. I hope I have made clear why I would prefer we stay out of the faith/belief section.....

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 10 of 33 (646749)
01-06-2012 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 10:56 AM


This is strange: I believe that there could be ghosts, but I don't really have these irrational fears you speak of. I could walk right into a "haunted house" with no problems and I don't get that strange feeling when I walk by a dark room.
Same here. It's only been the past few weeks that I have felt this way.
I only get scared when I actually see something, and its gotta be threatening.
I think I am less scared when I see something because that way, I know what I am dealing with. However, I've never actually "seen something" that was terror inducing. At least not in this context.
Take a group of primitive humans, some have an irrational fear of the unknown, some don't. Put them next to a questionable bush that may or may not have a lion behind it. The one's who have the fear, will avoid the bush, regardless of the lion. But the ones without the fear, when there *is* a lion there, will be selected against. Eventually, you'll weed out the people who don't have that irrational fear and be left with a population with a lot of people who do.
Yes, I know full well about this perspective. It actually explains quite a bit.
I don't think it follows that every single story must be the mind playing tricks.
Well, if you've some evidence to say otherwise, not only is here the perfect place for it, I think JREF has some money for you.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 10:56 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 11:45 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 14 of 33 (646771)
01-06-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 11:45 AM


What's changed? Just you starting to read the scary stories?
Yes, I guess. I mean, I've never been averse to horror movies or scary stories, but it's not exactly a staple of my entertainment. However, ever since I found reddit/r/nosleep, and been reading those and other creepy shit linked from there, I have felt an unease like never before. For example: when I get up early in the morning, I have to flip the lights on in the kitchen and the switch is behind the coffee pot. I get this feeling like there is a hand back there as well. Like I'm going to feel something else back there....
Unless you see something and you still don't know what your dealing with...
True. However, I think I would prefer to actually see something tangible so I can justify the shit in my head. Me telling myself "moron, it's all in your head" just isn't cutting it.
Huh? I'm not claiming that the paranormal does exist... read that again.
Ok. I think I see what you mean. However, all I have ever heard about anything paranormal is hearsay. Nothing physical has ever been produced.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 11:45 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 12:19 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 17 of 33 (646791)
01-06-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Omnivorous
01-06-2012 11:53 AM


Re: Too damn quiet...
Everything you say rings very true and I accept. However, two things are what sticks out at me.
    What it is that my mind thinks it is. The shit I see in my head aren't visions of very real predators or some dude in the car with a knife that wants to rob me. What I imagine it being is something very surreal. While I am quite aware that these instincts are there for a reason, it's how my mind is using them: for things that I know are not real.
    2: This is not a feeling I have had my whole life. this is the part that I guess is why I am raising the question. "Why now?". Why, when I am 30 years old and potentially at (thus far) the height of my skepticism/rationality/atheism? Why did this stuff all of a sudden have the intended effect? Like I said, I wasn't a scaredy cat kid. Hell, I watched Nightmare on Elm St. with my uncle at age 5, then proceeded to go home and cry....because of FOLLOW THAT BIRD (a very sad Big Bird movie) and not because of the horror flick. My friends and I used to watch, almost religiously, zombie movies.
Perhaps CS is right. Perhaps there is just something in my life right not that has made me succeptable. Stress?

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Omnivorous, posted 01-06-2012 11:53 AM Omnivorous has replied

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 18 of 33 (646795)
01-06-2012 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 12:19 PM


That is a little strange to be that concerned about so litte.
That didn't "concern" me, per se. It was just another one of the little annoyances/nuances that have never been there before. it was just something worth noting. It's not like it kept me awake at night.
Maybe there's other stuff going on in your life that's affecting this besides some scary stories on reddit.(?)
Very good possibility. However, I don't want this to be some sort of psychoanalysis of myself, nor am I about to divulge too much personal information...especially since you've already thrown in my face what little I have put out there. This thread isn't about me, it's more about the experience. I just used mine as a jump off.
If its bothersome enough, maybe you should go see somebody.
It's not, really. I think it's just more intriquing than bothersome. Annoying, maybe.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 20 of 33 (646806)
01-06-2012 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
01-06-2012 2:50 PM


Oh, okay. So maybe you were having the same experiences before reading the scary stories but now you're just acknowledging it and/or paying attention to it?
Again, that is a very real possibility.
But then, I was imagining them being something more than what you've now clarified they are.
Yes and no. It's not the kind of thing that keeps me up at night (I don't even have nightmares) and it doesn't make me stop dead in my tracks out of fear, but it does make my palms sweaty, the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and constantly feel like something is watching me. For example, when I walk out in the living room at night, out of the corner of my eye, I envision something looking at me through the window. I "see" it in my minds eye but I know it's not there. However, the feeling it gives me is very real...goosebumps and all. but what I "see" in my imagination is just something that was described in a story I read or a picture of some ghoul.
Maybe its just because its in the back of your mind... involuntary suggestion from delving into the scary stories.
That is precisely it and that's the fucked up part: that I know that is what it is.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 26 of 33 (648604)
01-16-2012 8:29 PM


Given how much shit I went through in getting this topic promoted, I had hoped it would have garnered more attention. I was hoping we could address some of the obvious (well obvious ot me) implications that have been brought to light.
Or is it just not an interesting enough topic?

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Trixie, posted 01-16-2012 9:52 PM hooah212002 has not replied
 Message 28 by bluegenes, posted 01-17-2012 5:19 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 29 of 33 (648634)
01-17-2012 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by bluegenes
01-17-2012 5:19 AM


Re: All supernatural beings are products of the brain.
One of the aspects of the subject that interests me is the fact that the type of beings that people's brains invent varies around the world from culture to culture. That suggests that, if you actually end up believing that there are beings following you around, things like the novels you are reading and other cultural input during your life will definitely effect the character of the beings.
This is the sort of thing I was hoping we would touch on and delve into a bit more.
One of the more intriguing stories I ran into was about the Pocong.
They cover the dead body with white fabric and tie the clothing over the head, under the feet, and on the neck. According to the native beliefs, the soul of a dead person will stay on the earth for 40 days after the death. When the ties aren't released after 40 days, the body is said to jump out from the grave to warn people that the soul need the bonds to be released. After the ties are released, the soul will leave the earth and never show up anymore. Because of the tie under the feet, the ghost can't walk. This causes the pocong to hop.
There are plenty of stories that circulate about people seeing this in nightmares. There have been movies about etc.
Another thing we also notice is like you said: people "see" stuff from the stories they are told. How often have we heard of a local imam seeing jesus in his toast? How many American christians see Mohammed in their toast? I was having a discussion with my parents this weekend wherein I told them how I had recently became a scaredy cat, so they went on to tell me what sort of stuff scared them. My dad said that, as a boy, he would have night terrors about hell and satan.
Hope this answers Trixie as well.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by bluegenes, posted 01-17-2012 5:19 AM bluegenes has not replied

  
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