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Author Topic:   Well this is awkward... Used to be a YEC
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(2)
Message 36 of 358 (645250)
12-24-2011 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by agent_509
12-23-2011 9:10 PM


Welcome back!
Isn't it curious. I've seen many stories from people who turned away from creationism and accepted science after they stopped simply believing what others told them and looked at the evidence themselves. I've never seen one story about anyone who turned away from science to creationism because the evidence told them so. The closest I can think of is Kurt Wise, but he's the first to admit that he believes the bible despite the evidence, not because of it.
Can anyone point me to a scientist who turned from science to creationism because that's where they believed the evidence led them?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by agent_509, posted 12-23-2011 9:10 PM agent_509 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-24-2011 6:32 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied
 Message 56 by DWIII, posted 12-25-2011 2:23 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied
 Message 135 by herebedragons, posted 01-02-2012 9:43 AM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(5)
Message 50 of 358 (645278)
12-24-2011 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by agent_509
12-24-2011 7:57 PM


Re: Welcome back!
Just a friendly tip; don't get too involved with Dawn. You'll find he's barely literate and a font of ignorance and misunderstanding about science, reason and just about everything else related in any meaningful way to the real world.
But he can be a fun toy to bat about a bit if you're into that kind of thing.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by agent_509, posted 12-24-2011 7:57 PM agent_509 has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 52 of 358 (645280)
12-24-2011 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by xongsmith
12-24-2011 10:33 PM


Re: Welcome back!
I'd suggest that you modify your Dawkins Scale to reflect the fact that the claims of logically valid and invalid do not come from Dawkins. At least, I don't think it does, since he considers himself a 6.9.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by xongsmith, posted 12-24-2011 10:33 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by PaulK, posted 12-25-2011 2:12 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(3)
Message 67 of 358 (645536)
12-27-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Tangle
12-27-2011 5:18 PM


Re: Welcome back!
Now then, was there any reason that you felt the need to lie about this? It's not even a good lie, I mean we could go back and show you the number of times it's been pointed out that abogenesis is about how life started and evolution is what happens after that.
Isn't it enough for you that you can say that science can't yet say how life started? Why lie when you've got a decent story anyway? Is it just habbit?
I feel I must rise to the defense of Dawn. I don't for a moment believe that he's lying. A lie is knowingly stating a falsehood to be true. It's clear that Dawn's connection with reality is so tenuous that he actually believes that supporters of the ToE lump it in together with abiogenesis. He is, of course, wrong. But I don't believe he knows he is.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2011 5:18 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2011 6:19 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied
 Message 71 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-28-2011 2:25 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 138 of 358 (646061)
01-02-2012 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by herebedragons
01-02-2012 9:43 AM


Re: Welcome back!
...he claims it was his discoveries in astrophysics and subsequent study of several different religions that drove him to that choice.
Not exactly.
He does claim he was a scientist before he was a Christian. But, at least in the page you linked, he doesn't attribute his conversion to any discoveries in astrophysics. He attributes it to his reading of the creation accounts in Genesis and his conclusion that they describe 11 unnamed "creation events" in a manner that he believes is too accurate to be explained other than that it was divinely inspired.
He doesn't say what he considers these "creation events" to be. He doesn't explain how they coincide with what science knows about the history of the universe or the history of life on Earth. Nor does he provide his calculations to support his conclusion that the odds of the 11 "creation events" being randomly put in the correct order are less than one in six billion.
Actually, the whole thing reads much the same as just about any other piece of apologetics I've ever read. There's certainly nothing there to suggest that it was science that led him to religion.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by herebedragons, posted 01-02-2012 9:43 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by GDR, posted 01-02-2012 5:27 PM subbie has replied
 Message 150 by herebedragons, posted 01-03-2012 8:22 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 141 of 358 (646067)
01-02-2012 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by GDR
01-02-2012 5:27 PM


Re: Welcome back!
It wasn't the science that led him to faith ....
Ah, so he has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked. Okay, well, thanks for the input.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by GDR, posted 01-02-2012 5:27 PM GDR has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 201 of 358 (646490)
01-04-2012 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by foreveryoung
01-04-2012 7:32 PM


Re: Utter rubbish!
Even if reality were reflected in religious writings, that still wouldn't make them scientific and, as such, they don't belong in science class. Whether it should be regarded as rubbish is a separate question, but it certainly shouldn't be regarded as science.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by foreveryoung, posted 01-04-2012 7:32 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by foreveryoung, posted 01-04-2012 7:43 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 206 of 358 (646498)
01-04-2012 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by foreveryoung
01-04-2012 7:43 PM


Re: Utter rubbish!
I'm pretty sure I made my point in the post you're replying to. If it's not science, it doesn't belong in science class.
Very few of us here would object if cdesign proponentists want to run around pretending that they are doing science, publish in their own "journals," hold conferences and conventions and generally conduct their cargo cult. It's when they try to equate it with actual science, get it taught in public school science classes, get public money to pursue their dogma, that we speak up and point of that it's not science, it's religion.
Go ahead, preach it in your churches. If you insist on making your children scientifically illiterate by teaching it in public schools, we'd probably criticize the practice, but most of us wouldn't try to prohibit it. Just keep it out of science.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by foreveryoung, posted 01-04-2012 7:43 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 297 of 358 (647867)
01-11-2012 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Dr Adequate
01-11-2012 3:37 PM


Re: Rock drops on foot
So ... you're still spamming this forum with the same crap? And you still haven't come up with any arguments to substantiate it?
You might as well ask your shoe to come up with something better. He keeps driveling the same dreck because he genuinely believes he's making some kind of point. He's incapable of understanding any of the 100s of criticisms of it. Seriously, you're more likely to make headway with Buz.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-11-2012 3:37 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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