Replacing Consumerism

Quite often the more experienced person is a cost saver over using cheaper labor. I certainly charge more for my services that I did when I was inexperienced.What you describe as being favoritism is completely foreign from my own understanding of the term, and I'd guess it isn't what most people would consider favoritism. I suspect that we have a fundamental disagreement that won't be resolved by my picking further at your word usage.I do believe unions are necessary, but if I were convinced that this kind of thing was really the reason why unions exist, I'd have to reconsider that position.

And I guess I'm trying to tell you that you've been sold a bill of goods. The problem is the sharp decrease in aggregate demand in 2007-2008 that left factories idle, workers unemployed, and people without the income to spend on goods and services.I don't think it's in any way a debt crisis. I think it's a demand crisis.

Well...one could argue that the more money in the pocket, the more things that can be bought(that are unneeded) Lets just say that in general, at my store and across America, people are working harder for the same thing they got cheaper a few years ago.

I agree. Income inequality bids up prices.

I certainly agree that demand resulting in growth and employment is (or should be) the answer to much of this. The US, the UK and the Euro currency zone all embarking on mass austerity simultaneously seems like a recipe for absolute paradox-of-thrift disaster on a global scale.But I don’t think you can just dismiss the notion that debt is a major factor too. Even if it isn’t a factor in quite the way many have (successfully) sold it to people as an excuse to pursue their ideological dreams in our respective countries.There has been an asset (i.e. housing) bubble in many Western countries. And it has burst. This has left many banks deeply exposed to bad loans. And this in turn has led to national governments paying out eye watering sums to prop up the banking system. The whole situation has exposed significant problems with the Euro currency countries. Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and even Italy are in genuine danger of defaulting on their increasingly unsustainable debts. If any of these nations do default various interdependent banks will go under (or require even bigger bailouts). The entire global economy seems to be continually teetering on the edge of somebody defaulting and causing a complete collapse. So I don’t see how debt isn’t a major issue here.Is my understanding as laid out above wrong in your view? If debt isn’t an issue why are we continually talking about countries defaulting on their debts? Can this scenario be averted purely by tackling demand?

Not that I mean to overdo a topic that seems to have already fizzled, but Phat linked me this video this morning and it is exactly on target for what has been discussed in this topic.Internet Archive: ErrorInterestingly, this video brings up a point that I believe was addressed in the PDF I quoted extensively in this thread but cannot remember for sure: Increased consumption by the first world requires increased pilfering of the resources of the third world. In other words, like the video says, we really don't have the resources here (or we consider it too expensive to extract them) to continue production of all the stuff we consume. To make up for this, we take resources from other countries that cannot afford to keep those resources for themselves.Even if we chose to extract the resources at any cost, our own country's resources (talking about the U.S.) cannot sustain the level of consumption that we are already at. Thus, we are dependent on foreign resources to meet that excess demand. This, of course, puts a hole in our country's national defense that no amount of bombing can fill; being dependent on foreign resources is not a wise defense policy. It would be one thing if we were simply looting other nations to preserve our own, being capable of meeting the demand for resources on our own were we required to do so. But this is not the case, even if we tried, there are not enough domestic resources to sustain our current level of consumption. We couldn't become self-sufficient even if we wanted to in our consumerist society.And the solution offered by many politicians and so called 'economists'? Consume more.There are certainly some stretched asses and squished heads somewhere.Once again: Consumerism fails to be a rational plan, this time in terms of national defense.Jon

I might add, in addition to what Jon said above...that the problem is compounded by the fact that China itself will be needing more resources for its own economic rise...some estimate that China would need 5 earths worth of resources if they followed the Western model of consumption.The bottom line is that change must happen sooner versus later. Even Politicians are slow to realize this, however. What solution was offered both after 9-11 and after the 2008 recession to Americans to help pull us out of crises?A) Pray More
B) Bomb Iran
C) Spend Spend Spend...Consume more.

From what I understand, our entire global financial system actually depends on debt. The Money Fix --The film documents three types of alternative money systems, all of which help solve economic problems for the communities in which they operate. The Money Fix Trailer Under three minutes...explains longer documentary above)I say screw this global economic debt based system. We owe nobody anything that they are not holding through ulterior motives. They sought to make the borrower slave to the lender . Only problem I can see is the evaporation of our pensions....somebody in some country/culture will be left holding the bag! Any better solutions?? And if that money is being lent out by banks and governments to stimulate the economy, it is just adding to the debt based system.Edited by Phat, : add by edit

(After watching that documentary)...now that my eyes were opened, i think i agree with what you say about consumerism...the corporations (Kraft, General Foods, Proctor&Gamble) create more and newer stuff to fill the shelves at safeway...heck, we could sell 1/3 as much and still stay open if the price were fair.From what safeway tells me, we essentially rent them shelf space however...so the ball is in their court.

We could all help hold the bag together. Is there a reason that won't work?

Ahhh yes...John Lennon and Imagine...except that I don't optimistically believe that everyone will share the global debt equally.Even the US Debt is, I think, a global concern and I would like to see it negotiated away based on some sort of global plan....but to believe that the 1% would share proportionately and equally with the 99% is in my opinion not indicative of observations of human nature.The shift away from consumerism is idealistic yet obviously not seen as practical by the powers that be.Thus, to see any change, the powers that be need to surrender some of the power to the rest of us.

Does that answer the question I asked at all? So you want to make sure that it is them left holding the bag instead of us, even though we're the ones who made it so gosh dern heavy. It's not idealistic. You are the one who linked me to that video which made the point that for most of human history consumerism was not the standard. We are more in number. We always have more power. We always have. We always will.Jon

Is there some reason that everyone should share the global debt evenly?

Yes. It will protect the American Middle Class from getting wiped out, hollowed out, and thrust to the back of the line. It will prevent the decimation and internal destruction of this nation.

Sorry but that does not seem like much of a reason for folk to pay off your debts.Is there some reason you can give for someone in Thailand to assume your debts?