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Author | Topic: Hyperbole in the Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17894 Joined: Member Rating: 8.2 |
quote: That's odd. It was the many greater ages in Genesis 5 - none of which shows the signs of simple hyperbole - that convinced you. That IS context. (And I would note that the "late addition" criterion is also not part of "comparing the statement against reality" - and doesn't seem to make much sense either). Do you also feel that all the ages of Genesis 5 are late additions ? What stops you from viewing them as hyperbole ? The statements, compared to reality, appear to be extremely exaggerated. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3943 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Jon writes: How would you identify hyperbole in the bible? How else does one recognize figurative language?How would you differentiate 'hyperbole' from 'extraordinary truth'? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3687 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Since I've conceded on Noah's age, I am baffled as to why it is still an issue and we aren't moving forward.
My explanations for yielding are in Message 22 and Message 41. Neither said anything about Genesis 5. The ages are exaggerated when compared to reality. The exaggerated age doesn't seem to be written to stimulate a visual image in our mind's eye. The agees were probably more about filling a gap. Yes, per Friedman, Genesis 5 was added by the Redactor. Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3687 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Yes, I would consider Genesis 7:19 to be hyperbole.
All hills, whole heaven. It was a very bad flood.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3687 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Interesting that you don't consider Matthew 23:24 to be a hyperbole. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. Matthew 23:24 The camel and gnat are not being compared to each other. Straining out gnats or their larvae from one's drinking water was common. The camel is an exaggeration of what can be swallowed, let alone be found in one's water. Humor of the day.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17894 Joined: Member Rating: 8.2 |
quote: We're aren't arguing about whether Noah's age is hyperbole - we are using it as an example of how to identify hyperbole. In large part BECAUSE you agree that it isn't hyperbole, but also because you NOW reject my reasons for saying so but don't seem able to offer any valid alternatives.
quote: That is either untrue or intentionally misleading. You implicitly refer to the ages in Genesis 5 In message 22.
quote: In other words, by your "comparison to reality" criterion you should consider them to be hyperbole.
quote: The "filling a gap" explanation seems pretty weak (being short of evidence and reasoning).But note, that this reasoning is NOT about either a comparison to reality or about being a late addition. Doesn't the fact that your stated criteria need to be augmented to deal with this case suggest that you need to rethink ? Doesn't the fact that you keep referring to the ages in Genesis 5 suggest that they ARE relevant to Noah's age in the Flood story? And you still leave important points unaddressed. Do you really take the position that acts attributed to God should be limited to what is naturalistically possible ? How do you feel about the creation of the rainbow at the end of the Flood story ? Hyperbole ? Literal fact ? Or Myth ?
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Panda Member (Idle past 3943 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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purpledawn writes: This rather goes against what I thought was the accepted understanding of the flood. Yes, I would consider Genesis 7:19 to be hyperbole. All hills, whole heaven. It was a very bad flood.If not all hills were covered then many people/animals could have survived on the uncovered hills. (I would suggest that it would have been a better idea for god to have told noah to build a wooden building on one of those hills rather than an ark.) So, how do we decide between your claim of hyperbole and other people's claim of accuracy?What are you using to decide the Genesis quote is hyperbole, when others simply see a statement of fact? Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3687 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Genesis 5 was not the basis for agreeing that Noah's exaggerated age might not be a true hyperbole as it is used in the story. His age doesn't make a point concerning the story.
As for the rainbow question, if you have a verse you feel I would consider to be hyperbole, please provide the verse.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3687 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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As I said in Message 1, this thread is not about what Christianity teaches. It is about what the text says.
Since the flood didn't cover the planet, there were plenty of places for people to go. Notice the Nephilum were still around after the flood. Genesis 6:4.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3943 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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PD writes: So, how do we decide between your claim of hyperbole and other people's claim of accuracy? As I said in Message 1, this thread is not about what Christianity teaches. It is about what the text says.What are you using to decide the Genesis quote is hyperbole, when others simply see a statement of fact? If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Since the flood didn't cover the planet, there were plenty of places for people to go. Notice the Nephilum were still around after the flood. Genesis 6:4. I'd agree that there is some hyperbole associated with 6:4, but I don't know how you tell what is literal and what is not. Were the Nephilum really demigods? Were the later tales of giant people actually related to these same folk? Or were these guys just a bunch of well fed, fit, fierce, street-fighting men that nobody was really inclined to take on. If they weren't really weren't some kind of pre-flood superfolk, then they aren't much evidence at all about whether the flood was global.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3687 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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quote:Asked and answered. How do you determine hyperbole in any other book you read. It's your turn to explain. If you want to argue the position that the verse is fact, then make your argument. I'm not going to debate against a position not presented by a participant.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Jon writes:
How would you identify hyperbole in the bible? Panda writes:
How else does one recognize figurative language? From reading your opening post, it seems like you are taking the IDist's stance of "I'll know it when I see it."How would you differentiate 'hyperbole' from 'extraordinary truth'? When I see hyperbole, or any other figurative language, I'll know it. There is no formula. JonLove your enemies!
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Panda Member (Idle past 3943 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Panda writes: So, how do we decide between your claim of hyperbole and other people's claim of accuracy?What are you using to decide the Genesis quote is hyperbole, when others simply see a statement of fact? PD writes: No, you have not answered this. Asked and answered.You can tell that you have not answered this by the number of people in this thread asking you to describe how you are deciding if things are hyperbole or not. PD writes: You are claiming that the verse is not fact, but when asked to explain your claim, you say "Prove it is fact!". How do you determine hyperbole in any other book you read. It's your turn to explain. If you want to argue the position that the verse is fact, then make your argument.If your intention in this thread was to say "The following bible phrases are hyperbole. Prove me wrong!" then I think you are shifting the burden of proof to the wrong people. Panda writes: But you are the one who is meant to present a position. I'm not going to debate against a position not presented by a participant.And since you are reluctant to do so, I am finding it difficult to debate that position with you. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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Panda Member (Idle past 3943 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Jon writes: How? When I see hyperbole, or any other figurative language, I'll know it. And do you think that "I'll just know" is a 100% reliable method of identifying hyperbole? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.If I were you And I wish that I were you All the things I'd do To make myself turn blue
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