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Author Topic:   Anyone ever heard of Rebecca Watson?
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 16 of 86 (639177)
10-28-2011 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
10-28-2011 2:43 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
"oh, I'm just a nerd; who could ever possibly think highly enough of me to be afraid?"
I too am socially awkward.
I'm also 6'6" and close to 300 lbs. I can be extremely intimidating and threatening without any intention of doing so. Especially if I'm in a foul mood. It has nothing to do with how highly a person thinks of me - if I tower a foot taller than you and double your mass, and we're stuck alone in an elevator, all I have to do is frown and other people sometimes start to look nervous.
I can only imagine how an already-vulnerable-feeling woman would feel if I awkwardly made any sort of proposition in similar circumstances. "Creepy" and "frightening" are certainly words that come to mind.

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 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 2:43 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 3:01 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 17 of 86 (639178)
10-28-2011 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
10-28-2011 2:52 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
Interesting. You and Crash I think have the opposite problem from guys like me who are skinny and nerdy looking. You guys cause fear, we cause amusement or aren't even noticed.
But even though I had a negative reaction to Rebecca Watson's description of the elevator incident, it wasn't guys like me trashing her on the Internet. I can't make sense out of that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 10-28-2011 2:52 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Rahvin, posted 10-28-2011 3:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 3:51 PM Percy has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 18 of 86 (639179)
10-28-2011 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
10-28-2011 3:01 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
Interesting. You and Crash I think have the opposite problem from guys like me who are skinny and nerdy looking. You guys cause fear, we cause amusement or aren't even noticed.
I consciously make efforts to not look threatening to others, especially when in a confined space like an elevator, and especially around women.
Of course, when I was younger, I had different problems. I was still tall, but extremely skinny. And I looked like a dork. I caused amusement and was always noticed. That was a less fortunate time for me. Only by High School had I filled out enough that other kids stopped bothering me.
But even though I had a negative reaction to Rebecca Watson's description of the elevator incident, it wasn't guys like me trashing her on the Internet. I can't make sense out of that.
I haven't a clue either. "Disproportionate" seems like a somewhat insufficient term for the vitriol directed her way.

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 Message 17 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 3:01 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 10-28-2011 3:18 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34058
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 19 of 86 (639181)
10-28-2011 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Rahvin
10-28-2011 3:11 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
There are a lot of assholes out there and the anonymity of the internet is great cover and a safe venue for their diatribes.
I am often surprised by how folk react to my presence and things I say.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Rahvin, posted 10-28-2011 3:11 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 86 (639189)
10-28-2011 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
10-28-2011 3:01 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
You and Crash I think have the opposite problem from guys like me who are skinny and nerdy looking. You guys cause fear, we cause amusement or aren't even noticed.
No, I'm pretty skinny and nerdy looking (or was, not too long ago). You really don't have to be an enormous dude to skeeve out a woman, but realizing that (and watching for it in your own behavior) is powerfully freeing.
But even though I had a negative reaction to Rebecca Watson's description of the elevator incident, it wasn't guys like me trashing her on the Internet.
I'm not trying to push the blame onto you, or connect you in any way to that reprehensible behavior, but it very much was guys like you and me who are out there trashing her on the internet. That's what many of us do when it feels like "one of us" got the short shrift from someone; especially from an attractive woman who we imagine might have been one of the "popular girls."
Consider the enormous reaction to Jon Finkel incident. In this case, the sentiments expressed were (IMO) the correct ones (except for the sentiments that Alyssa Bereznak should in any way be harmed), but the enormous outpouring of support was par for the course. It's what the Nerd Herd does when one of its members is threatened. And a lot of guys just like us, who know that they can hide behind anonymity on the internet, think little about expressing that support in the most misogynist and bullying of terms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 3:01 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Rahvin, posted 10-28-2011 4:00 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 22 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 5:16 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 21 of 86 (639190)
10-28-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
10-28-2011 3:51 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
Consider the enormous reaction to Jon Finkel incident. In this case, the sentiments expressed were (IMO) the correct ones (except for the sentiments that Alyssa Bereznak should in any way be harmed), but the enormous outpouring of support was par for the course. It's what the Nerd Herd does when one of its members is threatened. And a lot of guys just like us, who know that they can hide behind anonymity on the internet, think little about expressing that support in the most misogynist and bullying of terms.
Sounds a great deal like the Internet Tough Guy phenomenon, where upon hearing of some injustice, an anonymous internet forum user will insist on an even more unjust punishment, often involving torture, maiming, and death, for the perpetrator. This is done to express the depth of the outrage felt.
A similar phenomenon is described here:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 3:51 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 22 of 86 (639198)
10-28-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
10-28-2011 3:51 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
crashfrog writes:
No, I'm pretty skinny and nerdy looking (or was, not too long ago).
Oh, okay. I had a diffferent impression because of what you said in your Message 365 in the Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes thread:
I'm a big fat fuck...
It wasn't qualified, so I assumed it was a long term condition.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 3:51 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 6:32 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 23 of 86 (639202)
10-28-2011 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Percy
10-28-2011 5:16 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
It wasn't qualified, so I assumed it was a long term condition.
I gained a fair amount of weight between 2003 and 2005, due to a night shift desk job (and just plain not being 23 anymore.) "Fat fuck" was a bit of wry hyperbole, but I apologize for giving an inaccurate impression. (But it's nice of you to remember!)
Currently, having tacked on about 30 pounds onto the frame of a willow tree, I have an appearance somewhat akin to a snowman, or perhaps what you might imagine if you tried to fashion a human figure from pipe cleaners and a Bartlett pear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 5:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 24 of 86 (639255)
10-29-2011 1:14 PM


Wait a minute, I'm finally putting 2 and 2 together...
Didn't RW just get married in 2009?
And in the elevator incident video the backdrop is full of unpacked boxes, and she says she just moved.
And Wikipedia said she has separated from her husband and is seeking a divorce.
So when she made that video she was just recently separated.
Geez, talk about piling on someone when they're down!
--Percy

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(7)
Message 25 of 86 (639279)
10-29-2011 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-28-2011 12:12 PM


It always seemed to me that Rebecca Watson had a tough skin, so I'm surprised she's being perceived as needing notes of support. Anyone been following this and know what's going on?
I'm one of the few people who've heard every episode of the SGU in order. I'm very familiar with Rebecca and the situation.
Skeptics, as a whole, are not the most socially adept people in the world. They tend to be over intellectual and over educated. In short, "nerds".
The vast majority simple don't have the social skills that your average bar hopper picks up in high school/college.
When Rebecca first joined the podcast, she regularly received proposals in the fan mail. Not one or two total, but 5-10 a week for YEARS.
Some of those emails were more than just "I love that you're on the show, marry me". Some of them were quite graphic.
In a community that is predominately socially inept mails, a young woman who is smart and funny becomes the target of a lot of unwanted affection.
So, after YEARS of this, while giving a talk about (among other things) how to get more women involved in the movement, she mentioned that coming on to them was probably not the tactic to use.
This was followed by drinks with some of the people who attended the talk at the hotel bar. One of the people there just sat by and watched. He didn't really engage in conversation.
Late at night, she went back to her room. This guy followed her into the elevator, where he said what he said.
Rebecca made it quite clear that she didn't think that the guy had any sort of "evil intent". It was just an awkward guy not realizing that this combo:
- Late at night
- After drinking
- Big guy, petite girl
- Alone in the elevator
- Proposition
Is a great way to make someone feel extremely uncomfortable. Especially after having just given a talk about how to avoid doing those sort of things.
So, she made the blog.
The backlash was MASSIVE and INSTANT.
It seems that nothing gets the nerds more riled up than pointing out that they are awkward around women. Lots of guys put themselves in the shoes of the "guy in the elevator" doing something that they would (or wish they could) try and do.
None of them seemed to even acknowledge the perspective of the petite woman who's been harassed for years through email and still puts herself out there.
To top that off, Dawkins jumped basically saying that Rebecca should be "complaining" about something that's not really an issue when there are women in Africa who are raped and murdered on a regular basis.
His position is that the event in the elevator was not a dangerous one and that she was over reacting.
He has a point, but it's an insensitive one.
The issue is that this guy made Rebecca feel uncomfortable the same way that most of the guys in the movement are likely to make other girls uncomfortable. That that was the whole point of her talk in the first place.
Her recommendation was that the nerds stop trying to hit on everything that walks through the door like a pack of rabid hyenas. My words, not hers.
The fact that Dawkins turned on her really upset her. You could hear it in her voice as she recounted the situation in the podcast.
Rebecca has thick skin. She hasn't left the movement. But, it's important for the nerds to realize that those things they did in High School which scared off all the girls are STILL scaring off all the girls only now they are a whole lot scarier.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 12:12 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by xongsmith, posted 10-29-2011 11:23 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2602
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 26 of 86 (639285)
10-29-2011 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Nuggin
10-29-2011 9:54 PM


sexism again?
Where are the women of EvC on this thread? It pains me to note that only us EvC men have had some point to make so far, and most of these remarks seem to support her, in something that clearly needs to be argued from the woman's side as well.
Consider this: Black men got the right to vote in this country long before any woman did - including privileged rich white women.....
I would say that my opinion on this matter and the rest of us really don't amount to diddley squat.
But, just to state my opinion, I support Rebecca Watson.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Nuggin, posted 10-29-2011 9:54 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 86 (639289)
10-30-2011 12:49 AM


What ever happened to giving a fake phonenumber!?

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 1:01 AM Jon has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 28 of 86 (639290)
10-30-2011 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jon
10-30-2011 12:49 AM


What ever happened to giving a fake phonenumber!?
What ever happened to taking no for an answer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 10-30-2011 12:49 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Jon, posted 10-30-2011 4:27 AM crashfrog has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 920 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 29 of 86 (639294)
10-30-2011 2:37 AM


More To Life Than 4chan/b/ Ethics
I have followed this 'controversy' to some extant since it started. Watson only tried to tell some self described nerds to consider her situation and chill a bit on the behavior. Unfortunately she did it on you tube, despite her best intentions in trying to educate, the whole thing exploded.
Edited by anglagard, : short and sweet
Edited by anglagard, : May as well get the title right, 4chan/b/, so that is what the guy on the corner was screaming about

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 86 (639295)
10-30-2011 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by crashfrog
10-30-2011 1:01 AM


What ever happened to taking no for an answer?
Did she say 'no'?
Did he put up a fuss?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 1:01 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by crashfrog, posted 10-30-2011 11:16 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
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