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Author Topic:   The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
JasonChin 
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 49 (149271)
10-11-2004 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Jack
10-11-2004 6:12 AM


Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
So... thus far we've established that half the things you say come to phi, don't.
No we haven't. We've just had heresay and a few home-taken measurments.
I need more proof than this.
This message has been edited by JasonChin, 10-11-2004 10:16 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2004 6:12 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 10-11-2004 11:19 PM JasonChin has replied
 Message 38 by sidelined, posted 10-12-2004 12:14 AM JasonChin has replied
 Message 49 by Dr Jack, posted 10-12-2004 5:40 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
JasonChin 
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 49 (149274)
10-11-2004 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by AdminAsgara
10-11-2004 11:14 PM


Re: Not us
Jason, are you passive-aggressive?
Wow, you're quick......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by AdminAsgara, posted 10-11-2004 11:14 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 33 of 49 (149275)
10-11-2004 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 11:09 PM


The onus is on you.
You made a claim about the bees. You have to show your support for your claim.
I can tell you that it is a fact that the number of workers in a normal hive is in the 10,000's.
quote:
Honeybees live in hives or colonies. A small hive contains about 20,000 bees, while some larger hives may have over 100,000 bees. Hives include one queen, hundreds of drones, and thousands of worker bees. The worker bees are female, but they do not breed. The queen bee is female and creates all the babies for the hive. The drone bees are male and do not have stingers.
from: http://www.42explore.com/bees.htm
Other sites have similar numbers. It is your job to defend your statments. Where did you get the ratio you gave?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 11:09 PM JasonChin has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 34 of 49 (149276)
10-11-2004 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 11:15 PM


Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
As I just noted it is up to you to support your statments. You have not done so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 11:15 PM JasonChin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 11:22 PM NosyNed has replied

  
JasonChin 
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 49 (149278)
10-11-2004 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed
10-11-2004 11:19 PM


Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
But it's not MY statement...........it's a statement from a number of "official" sources, going back to the Rennisance or earlier.
Therefore, it's up to you to present official statements to the contrary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 10-11-2004 11:19 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 10-11-2004 11:32 PM JasonChin has replied
 Message 37 by NosyNed, posted 10-11-2004 11:56 PM JasonChin has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 36 of 49 (149282)
10-11-2004 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 11:22 PM


But it's not MY statement...........it's a statement from a number of "official" sources, going back to the Rennisance or earlier.
Again with the argument from authority. Why do you expect that to be compelling?
By what means did your "official" sources come to this conclusion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 11:22 PM JasonChin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:21 AM crashfrog has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 37 of 49 (149291)
10-11-2004 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 11:22 PM


sources
Then you supply your sources and we examine how they arrived at the number. What inputs did they use and how did they do the calculations.
Sources are valuable if they are good ones. Good ones supply the details they used in comming to their conclusions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 11:22 PM JasonChin has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 38 of 49 (149295)
10-12-2004 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 11:15 PM


Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
JasonChin
We've just had heresay and a few home-taken measurments.
Good show! Do not take our word for it.Measure yourself to find out how close to phi your own body measurements are already.
Investigating for yourself is the best way by far to determine the veracity or falseness of the claim. Let us know how it went will you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 11:15 PM JasonChin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:24 AM sidelined has replied

  
JasonChin 
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 49 (149300)
10-12-2004 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by crashfrog
10-11-2004 11:32 PM


Again with the argument from authority.
My arguments from authority beat your arguments from amaturity any day......especially when the authorities stretch back for hundreds or even thousands of years, with no refutation that anyone has mentioned.
This message has been edited by JasonChin, 10-11-2004 11:22 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 10-11-2004 11:32 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by NosyNed, posted 10-12-2004 12:31 AM JasonChin has replied
 Message 43 by AdminAsgara, posted 10-12-2004 12:41 AM JasonChin has not replied
 Message 44 by AdminAsgara, posted 10-12-2004 12:42 AM JasonChin has not replied
 Message 46 by crashfrog, posted 10-12-2004 12:45 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
JasonChin 
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 49 (149303)
10-12-2004 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by sidelined
10-12-2004 12:14 AM


Sidelined
But those would still be amaturish calculations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by sidelined, posted 10-12-2004 12:14 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by sidelined, posted 10-12-2004 1:07 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 41 of 49 (149305)
10-12-2004 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by JasonChin
10-12-2004 12:21 AM


Authority??
What authority? You haven't supplied any references yet. You don't have any authorities or facts or anything yet. When you supply those and we can review the calculations, statistical methods or whatever else is involved then we can comment.
You need to review the guidelines here, I think.
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 10-11-2004 11:32 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:21 AM JasonChin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:34 AM NosyNed has replied

  
JasonChin 
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 49 (149310)
10-12-2004 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by NosyNed
10-12-2004 12:31 AM


Re: Authority??
I am under the impression that there have been many authorities supporting the claim of the frequency with which Phi is found in nature, going back to the ancient greeks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by NosyNed, posted 10-12-2004 12:31 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by NosyNed, posted 10-12-2004 12:44 AM JasonChin has not replied
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 10-12-2004 12:47 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 43 of 49 (149319)
10-12-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by JasonChin
10-12-2004 12:21 AM


damn double posts....must be Jar's fault somehow.
This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 10-11-2004 11:43 PM

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:21 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 44 of 49 (149320)
10-12-2004 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by JasonChin
10-12-2004 12:21 AM


Jason, our Forum Guidelines state that when asked, you supply your sources. If you have sources you must present them.
While generally, anecdotal evidence is easily trumped, measurements are difficult to argue with. Your OP states that
Your head to your toes divided by your navel to your toes. Your hip to toes divided by your knee to your toes = 1.618. Your shoulder to your finger tips, divided by your elbow to your fingertips = 1.618
Others here have presented measurement of their own that refute this. Stating that your authorities trump their measurements is not enough. You must give your sources.
especially when the authorities stretch back for hundreds or even thousands of years, with no refutation that anyone has mentioned.
The measurements ARE refutation, especially with no source listed on your side.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:21 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 45 of 49 (149322)
10-12-2004 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by JasonChin
10-12-2004 12:34 AM


Re: Authority??
Ah, well your impressions don't exactly count. As none of ours do.
What counts is the actual measured number of bees in hives and the measured proportions of humans. To take two examples.
Phi does occur as has been pointed out. There seem to be good geometrical reasons for it in some places. However, some of the list of places you supplied seem to be suspect at best.
It will take more than impressions to turn 100,000 workers to less than 1,000 drones into a ratio of phi.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by JasonChin, posted 10-12-2004 12:34 AM JasonChin has not replied

  
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