Summations Only

Rahvin writes: David Brin has been pushing ceaselessly for the right of citizens to spy on their own government. People should be allowed to film police beatings and other such shit from the power structure.

Wow.That's not at all what I'm about. Escalation just results in more death.I'm outraged over a guy who got shot in the face with a tear gas canister. How outraged do you think I'll be if someone gets shot in the face with a bullet?I don't want cops getting shot. I don't want protestors getting shot. I don't even want the rich getting shot. My goal is the improvement of human life, not the loss of human life. My goal is positive change, not retribution.Civil disobedience is fine, and I have absolutely no problem with it. But bringing an AK-47 to a rally? I was disgusted when Teabaggers brought guns and talked about "second amendment solutions," and I'm no less disgusted when anyone else suggests the same thing, regardless of the perceived political "side." Nobody who advocates for violence or guns or killing is on my side.

The mobsters were not unarmed. They were armed with anything they could get their hands on including stones and fire extinguishers, etc etc. All kinds of dangerous stuff was being thrown at the officers.Given the radical left wing liberal atmosphere in Oakland, it must have been bad for the police and town fathers to stop the destruction violence and rebellion against law authorities. .Had it been in Iowa or Montana etc, one might expect the police to react.Had they not called in outside enforcement, likely they would've been over-run by the frenzied mobs.

You will of course show evidence of the Oakland Occupy protestors throwing objects at police before the police opened fire.By the definition you're using, everyone is always armed.

Let's be explicit, Buz.You support the firing of a tear gas cannister at close range into the face of a peacefully protesting Marine vet.You support tossing a flash-bang into the group of people huddled around the critically injured man.Is that right?

Beginning with Muslim nations, the notion of rebellion is spreading globally. It's all indicative of implementing a globalist socialist New World Order. Note that Muslims are participating in the US protests. Assuredly they're active in many nations. This all goes well with the Muslim doctrine, beginning with Mohammed of global dominancy via procreation, violence and rebellion.Sharia Islam is expanding globally, nation by nation, region by region and increased influence in the UN world body. This all pertains to fulfillment of the Biblical prophets regarding the end times and Armageddon.

About the Marine veteran:

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OAKLAND, Calif. The Iraq War veteran injured during a clash between police and anti-Wall Street protesters wasn't taking part in the demonstrations out of economic want.

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Scott Olsen, 24, makes a good living at a software company and rents a hillside apartment with views of San Francisco Bay. And yet, his friends say, he felt so strongly about economic inequality in the country that he fought for that he slept at a San Francisco protest camp after work.

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"He felt you shouldn't wait until something is affecting you to get out and do something about it," said friend and roommate Keith Shannon, who served with Olsen in Iraq.

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It was that feeling that drew him to Oakland on Tuesday night, when the clashes broke out and Olsen was struck by a projectile that fractured his skull. Police say they responded only when protesters began throwing bottles and other items at them.

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Now, even as officials investigate exactly where the projectile came from, and from whom, Olsen has become a rallying cry for the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators across the nation, with Twitter users and protest websites declaring: "We are all Scott Olsen."

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In Las Vegas, a few dozen protesters held a vigil Wednesday night, carrying glow sticks and projecting a photo of the Marine in uniform onto the corrugated-metal side of building at their camp.

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More vigils were being planned Thursday night in other cities.

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Elsewhere, officials took steps to close some camps that sprang up since the movement began last month against what protesters see as corporate greed and a government that caters to the wealthiest and big business.

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In Nashville, Tenn., officials imposed a curfew for a camp at the Capitol complex. In Providence, R.I., officials notified protesters that they were violating laws prohibiting camping overnight at a park.

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Some tea party groups complained of a double standard, saying they were charged fees to hold their rallies while Occupy groups have not. One group in Richmond, Va., is asking the city to repay $8,000 spent for permits and other needs.

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On Thursday, however, most of the talk was of Olsen and who was responsible for his injury.

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The group Iraq Veterans Against the War blamed police. Police say they used tear gas and bean bag rounds, not flash grenades and rubber bullets as some demonstrators have charged.

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Interim Oakland police Chief Howard Jordan said Wednesday that the charges of excessive use of force are being investigated. He did not return repeated calls seeking comment on Thursday.

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Olsen's condition improved on Thursday, with doctors transferring him from the emergency room to an intensive care unit. His parents were flying to Oakland from Wisconsin, his uncle said.

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"His mother, this is obviously a heartbreaker to her," said George Nygaard, also a Marine veteran, said. "I don't think she understands why he was doing this."

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Olsen, who is from Onalaska, Wis., served two tours in Iraq, felt the anti-Wall Street movement had a chance to create real change, Shannon said. So each night, he would go out to the tent camps and usually called Shannon with his whereabouts.

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On Tuesday night, Olsen had planned to be in San Francisco, but changed course after his veteran's group decided to go to Oakland to support the protesters there. Earlier, police in riot gear cleared an encampment outside city hall that officials said had health and safety problems.

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"I think it was a last minute thing," he said about Olsen's decision. "He didn't think about it."

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Joshua Shepherd, 27, a Navy veteran who was standing nearby when Olsen got struck, said he didn't know what hit him. "It was like a war zone," he said.

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Then there was a scramble and he couldn't clearly see the rush of folks who went to Olsen's aid.

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A video posted on YouTube showed Olsen being carried by other protesters through the tear gas, his face bloodied. People shout at him: "What's your name? What's your name?" Olsen, however, just stares back.

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Shepherd said it's a cruel irony that Olsen is fighting for his life in the country that he fought to protect. "He was over there protecting the rights and freedoms of America and he comes home, exercises his "freedoms" and, it's here, where he's nearly fatally wounded," Shepherd said.

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People at OPSWAT, the San Francisco security software company where Olsen works, were devastated after learning of his injuries. They described him as a humble, quiet guy who worked hard over long hours.

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"He's been a big piece of what we do here and our growth strategy, so obviously it's pretty devastating for us that he's in the shape he's in," said Jeff Garon, the company's director of marketing.

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Olsen had been helping to develop security applications for U.S. defense agencies, building on expertise gained while on active duty in Iraq, Garon said.

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Olsen was awarded seven medals while serving in the U.S. Marine Corps, which he left as a lance corporal in November 2009 after serving for four years. One of them was the Navy-Marine Corps Achievement Medal.

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Olsen moved to the Bay Area in July, and quickly found friends in the veterans against the war group. The lanky man with a dry sense of humor did not show a lot of interest in politics as a teen he has two tattoos for the group "Insane Clown Posse" on his upper arms, Shannon said.

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His tours of duty in Iraq made him more serious, Shannon said.

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"He wasn't active in politics before he went in the military, but he became active once he was out ... the experience in the military definitely shaped him," Shannon said.

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Seems our veteran is a decorated Marine who served multiple tours in Iraq, and is currently employed, spending only his nights, his personal free time, at Occupy protests.Is this Marine part of the "rent-a-mob," Buz?

Wait.Your response to questions of whether you support shooting people in the face with gas canisters and using flashbangs on crowds of people......is that the protests are a Muslim conspiracy?Is anybody else here thinking Buz is dropping even farther off the deep end than normal?

According to who?The officers?I know that a recent report explains that Oakland police didn't actually use flash-bangs, that was actually "firecrackers ignited by protesters." Risible, to say the least. (No firecrackers, spent or otherwise, were recovered at the scene, though the casings of tear gas canisters and flash-bang grenades were.) But on what basis should we believe anonymous, self-serving police reports? You act like it's not the most commonplace thing in the world for police to react to peaceful, left-wing demonstrations with violence. Happens every time. Armed hooligans at a Tea Party protest? Funny, police can't be found.

I just noticed that Buz "jeered" this post. Out of all of the posts Buz and I have exchanged, this is the only one he's bothered to "jeer."Does this mean that Buz supports police brutality? Perhaps he thinks prison rape is a good thing?

Well, then that's a good thing, right?Isn't that why Israelis have such success raising funds and political support from evangelical churches? Because the existence of a militarily strong Israel coincides with their end-time beliefs?So you must welcome any spread of Islam if it heralds the Second Coming.By the way, answer my question in Message 350.Stop being the King of Jeers and give an honest reply.

Do you have any evidence of "mobsters" or is this another one of your unsupported innuendos and assertions?Do you have any evidence of a "radical left wing liberal atmosphere in Oakland" or is this another one of your unsupported innuendos and assertions?

I've noticed Buz delivers more jeers than the rest of the board combined, and dispenses them most freely when he has no effective reply. Wear it with pride I'd say yes. The police use prison rape as an interrogation threat and put vulnerable prisoners into hard-core cell blocks and holding tanks as both punishment and leverage.I've experienced both scenarios--listening to someone who is sworn to "serve and protect" describe your likelihood of being raped with lascivious delight teaches you something about human depravity.Like most systems of institutionalized abuse, prison rape serves the institution's purposes.Buz supports his police. {At best, slightly on topic. Shall we all try to do better? - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note in red.Edited by Omnivorous, : Solidly on topic. But every day in every way, I try to do better.

Do you EVER.... EVER think about or do ANY research on ANY of the topics you post about? Do you EVER read, actually READ, what people take the time to put together and post here? 'Cause it REALLY doesn't seem like it.I will gladly admit that NOT ALL of the protesters acted in an appropriate manner. Could you do the same? Fuck no you couldn't. Not a single police officer did anything wrong as far as you are concerned. But that's out of the scope of what you are commenting on anyway. This is one, specific instance I am talking about in the comment you have decided to reply to. You HAD to comment on it but you obviously couldn't be bothered to even find out what I was talking about!I have a video that CLEARLY SHOWS a visual impairment device being tossed DIRECTLY INTO a small group of people who ran to ASSIST AN INJURED PROTESTER. I can clearly see in this video not ONE SINGLE action is taken against the police by the crowd gathered before they toss the device. I can see NO weapons being pointed at the police. None. Not one.Further, I have provided the OPD Crowd Policy that SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS the use of that kind of tactics, even IF someone, somewhere in that crowd HAD been throwing firecrackers!Where's your evidence of life threatening danger to the police? Got any? At all? Yeah, that's what I thought.Edit. I would also like to point out that Buz has tucked his tail and ran from previous comments in this thread about vacation. Nothing to say about that either, eh old chap?Edited by PsychMJC, : Edit

Do you have any evidence for your self-serving fantasies?