Tea Party Questions

Actually, yes that did happen and happen quite often and was a major driving force in the development of the modern fire department concept.In the early days of "Fire Insurance" the Insurance companies paid fire 'companies' to respond to a fire in one of their insured clients. Each company had a "Fire Mark" that would be displayed on the building identifying the Insurance Company.The Fire Companies only got paid by the Insurance Company when they responded and made a successful effort to minimize the structural damage to the property. It was quite profitable and there were even incidents of rival Fire Companies getting in fights on the way to the blaze resulting in no one getting there.

1. Cool fact. The things we learn on EvC. What year are you talking about? (Is this two CENTURIES ago?) Thanks Jar.2. To be clear, Rhavin wrote "DENYING a fire truck for an emergency fire call while taking revenue from "fire insurance" = higher profit." You (and I) wrote the opposite, the fire companies got rewarded/paid when they responded. While logically cost-wise (depending who you be), it is hardly a humanitarian plan.To which I would ask again:If the police department, fire department, and libraries strove to make profits, would you be Ok with that too? Or another way of asking: Would it be better if ALL our social services, including police department, fire department, and libraries, be privatized? I think that is a legitmate question because IMO, I believe like social security, many americans would surprisingly say yes.Would any forum participant like to agree?Edited by dronester, : clarityEdited by dronester, : clarity

Would it be ok with you if the bottom 15% of wage earners were not able to afford these services, and were therefore excluded from receiving these services? Do you think it is moral if the police refuse to follow up on a burglary because the person who was robbed can not afford their services? Would it be ok if a family had to watch their house burn down because they could not afford the $500 dollars a month the local for-profit fire department was charging?For that matter, let's completely deregulate the utilities and let them charge whatever they want and cut power to whomever they want if they are unable to pay. Would it be ok with you if families making 20k a year are not able to pay for the jacked up prices and have to huddle together for warmth the entire winter?

Taq, are your questions rhetorical, for anybody, or just to me?I think you already know my leftist stances, and I am horrified when non-liberal government polices, such as Obama's, favor the rich/elite over the public's needs.

The ones who would say yes are clueless as to what the ramifications could be for privatizing said services. I'd also venture a guess and say those same folks watch fox news, vote strictly republican and demonize social anything, all the while making sure to get there hands on medicare and medicaid. But of course they would want private libraries because they see no need for poor folks to do any bok lurnin.

Well, I want to agree with you, but there SHOULD be a tipping point where enough people will eventually need said services (especially during the US' recession), and then come to their senses that it is a good thing social services are not privatized. E.g., unemployment benefits are a good thing when Bush's Enron cronies lay off their employees and steal their pensions.But some people, like "SOME" religious/republicans, are willfully clueless. We have seen where the tea-partyists would prefer to go over the cliff.I often think of the Germans who went along/supported Hitler. People are so eager to die/suffer others for their idealisms.What can be done?

Isn't that why they are not private now? Because we realized that everyone deserves equal access to them? Why should we "try it out" when we know the private system is fucked? But the people we are secretly alluding to are against unemployment (until they need it anyways). No...they'll throw YOU off the cliff because "fuck you, I got mine". Viva la revolucion'!

Viva la revolucion'?americans are too cowardly. After 9/11, its citizens dutifully voted for congress/presidents who voted for wire tapping their phones. The citizens allowed their child-daughters to be felt up at security gates to "fight terrorism". americans voted for presidents that support torture. So cowardly they have became, they didn't even object to security taking away their 1 inch nail clippers for "home security" reasons.Those who give up freedom for safety deserves neither.I am not feeling optimistic these days.

Then perhaps you could weigh in on my "Occupy Wall Street" thread so we stop derailing this one?

Rhetorical. I was hoping that Obama and the Dems in Congress would have at least one backbone to share between them. They didn't. Their ideas are in the right place, but they are always afraid to put them into law. Too bad.Obamacare was not health care reform. It was a tiny step towards health insurance reform. It saddened me deeply when Dems would say in an interview, "I would really like to see universal health care like we see in other first world nations, but we can't push that through congress." What a waste of my vote.

Many idiots would say "yes" to privatization of all, I'm sure.But the fact is that of necessity, any dollar allocated to profit is a dollar that would not be used to put out or prevent a fire; to prevent crime; to give lifesaving treatment to the sick or injured; to educate children.Private institutions simply aren't answerable to the public in the same way that government is. Government must represent all of us, regardless of income or race or gender or any other consideration. Private industry must represent only the profits of the shareholders.The profit motive is excellent at driving competition and creativity in the marketplace.It's not excellent at getting the job done regardless of whetehr you can make money doing it.What happens if you pay private fire departments based on the number of fires they put out? They now have an incentive to create an environment with more fires, not less. It's even an incentive to start fires, just so they can be paid when they put them out.What happens if your neighbor doesn't pay his fire department bill, and his house catches fire? Does the fire department then just let that house burn? Do they let anyone trapped inside die? What about the danger the burning house poses to your own home, even if you paid your bill?Clearly that doesn't work if your goal is protection of the public from fire. Which is why fire protection is paid publicly, not privately.I don't think we even need to mention the hazards of opening up the profit motive to private police. Justice for all...who can pay!Certain social services need to be provided at equal levels to the entire population, regardless of ability to pay, regardless of whether doing the job is profitable or not. The job needs to get done, period. Those services are not well served by privatization.Social Security isn;t particularly different. Privatization in that case typically means investing SS funds gathered from taxes into private sticks on the open market. In effect, this means taking money from every American citizen and just handing it directly to businesses, with no guarantee that the investment will be returned.If I told you that I was going to deduct money from your paycheck and just hand it to Goldman Sachs, to do with what they will, in the hope that you'll get to share in the profits, but with absolutely no guarantees or responsibility, what would you say?Obviously the extra money would be a massive boon for business. But what happens in an economic slump? Do retired people who have been guaranteed a certain amount of income for the rest of their lives suddenly get cut off because the stock market had a bad day? That rather seems to defeat the entire purpose of Social Security.Edited by Rahvin, : Clarification - calling Teabaggers idiots, not dronester.

This is not a hypothetical question. Some public fire departments already refuse to spray water on your house if you haven't paid your bill.http://www.nowpublic.com/...d-obion-county-fine-2692500.html

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Gene Cranick's Rural Tennessee Home Burns To The Ground Because Of Unpaid $75 Fine

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Gene Cranick, a homeowner in Obion County in Tennessee, watched helplessly as his house burned to the ground - his 911 call went unheeded because of an unpaid $75 Fire services fee, charged to people living outside county limits.

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The South Fulton Fire department did ultimately respond but only to prevent a neighbor's home that was being threatened - the fire fighters allowed the Cranwick home to burn to the ground.

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I for one don't play silly games, so your questions will simply be good for a chuckle.

And I wish more "progressives" would view Senate by-laws in this light.Who were the 60 senate votes for public-option health care, Drone? Who were the 60 senate votes for universal single-payer? Please be specific and name the senators.

IIRC, people used to look for these plaques and want to live next to them - because the fire insurance companies would also put out your building as it risked the building with the mark.
So, your neighbour would be paying for you fire insurance.
Crazy...