Religious Conversions

I think CS's point was that even if we had numbers about how many people were converting: we couldn't know their reasons for conversion which could be pragmatic rather than religious.

Yes I see that point(and acknowledge it is a very good point), but I really wonder what is meant by "a lot". This is by no means meant to be an attack on CS or to paint him into a corner. The term "a lot " is very subjective and means different things to different people. I wonder how the site he mentions quantifies the number of conversions.

No, I don't remember. There's this awesome new site call "Google" where you can type in things like "Christiand converting to Islam" and find all kinds of pages to read all kinds of stuff on.Care to contribute to the discussion in any way at all? Durr, ya gotz any evidense fur that assurtion?

I did a search and found a few sites. I was wondering what you had found. I did not want to criticize your source when I did not know your source.I am not at all doubting there are people in Pakistan converting to Islam from Christianity and other religions.It seems all of the articles I found on Google point to this article as their original source.The article says

quote:

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Dog-eared and tattered, the blue book is an inch thick and sits on a dented metal table in the corner office of Jamia Naeemia, an Islamic school tucked in a scattering of cement-walled homes and roadside shops.

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Many believe the book offers the promise of safety and perhaps even a better chance at prosperity.

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The book is a registry used to document religious converts to Islam and officials at Jamia Naeemia say business is brisk nowadays.

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At least 20 to 25 former Christians adopt Islam each week by pledging an oath and signing a green and white document in which they accept Islam as the most beautiful religion and promise to remain in the religion of Islam for the rest of my life, acknowledging that blessings are only from God.

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Human rights advocates say it’s no surprise some of Pakistan’s 3 million Christians are adopting Islam. These are vexing and dangerous days for the country’s religious minorities.

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Not sure how anyone gets a lot from that. Why do I even try to engage you at all?

I was just sayin'... the point didn't have anything to do with the actual number.And I certainly don't want to get into source criticizing. I'm hear to read the opinions of the people who post here, not their opinions on other people's opinion that don't.Your behavior here goes against what I feel is the entire point of a forum like this one and your tone is (honestly, no offense this time) really bitchy so, you're a bother to me. Maybe you're a slow learner? I'd prefer you didn't so you'd stop junking up the boards... not that I have that much room to talk But seriously, I was making a minor point to Rahvin and you want my source for an irrelevancy so you can criticize the source. No thanks.

Yes, implying that even if Chuck did provide some numbers, it wouldn't really/necessarily support any claim about the veracity of the religions. Wasn't that kinda his point?

I disagree there is a relevance here. If the true number is not "a lot" then your point does not have the significance you think it does and Chuck could turn that around and use the argument against you. There may be a miniscule # or people converting out of fear or there may be a huge #. As of yet we have very little data. Not at all but when you use terms like "a lot" I want to see the data. It isn't my problem if you do not want to provide anything to back up you statements. I just feel it is bad form to make a statement that has nothing factual to back it up. Your use of the term "a lot" was a poor choice considering the data you seem to have had.Lets look at your original comment If the data does not show that there is "a lot" converting out of fear but instead because they felt Islam was true than your point is pointless.As to the rest of your comments. They are not worth responding to. If you want to go off topic please take it elsewhere.

It is funny you mention this...I can not be the only person on here who can't come up with some reasonable numbers?? Census don't tell us a damn thing. In this whole thread I have not seen one good source of information about conversions, if I have missed one then please point it out.Without any real source of proof it seems everyone from A to Scientology claim to be the fastest growing religion.Is there any real source of unbiased statistics available? I can't find one. Without some support then this topic is just a bunch of unsupported BS.

No, it doesn't matter. Even if we did have the number of converts, lacking the reasons for people converting removes the implication that its because one is more truthful. Not at all... its an irrelevant aside. Yeah, I "ran across" something -- so that part's not really the point.
And IIRC means "if I remember correctly", so I was admitting that I wasn't even looking at any data when I was writing that.There's no good reason to ask for my "data". No, the number of converts wouldn't imply more veracity without the reason for converting, regardless of the actual number of people that converted out of fear/persecution.

No, that's why I asked; I couldn't find any good numbers and I was wondering if anybody else could. Then Rahvin said that it would be hard for these number to exist. Then I said that even if we did have them, they wouldn't really help anyways. And then it got drug into the gutter.

LOL... I have looked for the last day or so a couple of times and couldn't come up with a thing accept some census numbers, which I would have to convert into percentages of growth...which has nothing to do with conversion. It's still funny how some people will argue just because they don't like someone, even though they know that it is a argument that can't be won. All that happens is it turns into a pissing contest.

Now isnt that easier than being rude? I disagree on the relevance issue, but you make a good argument.

Yep - Good reply. I would give you a cheer but you are operating at a perfect 10 already!!!Don't for one minute think that my description of "fruitless" means that I am about to throw the towel in and give it up as a lost cause. It's far to much fun for that!! And ultimately I share your more optimistic approach.Now - Where were we? Ah yes. Converting Chuck........

Straggler chuckles: Wouldn't that be more properly termed as "deprogramming"?Chuck is fine. He is a Believer and I think he can be a great addition to this forum. We should kindly embrace his willingness to get dogpiled anywhere here. We have a number of other members here that seem to be dwindling in numbers. We still have the Buzsaw who provides us with daily reminders why this Forum came into existence. "God" bless him. Chuck seems like a very reasonable participant from the C side.Maybe I haven't prowled around enough in the catacombs of this site very well and seem to have been caught up too much in the Peanut Gallery, but from what I have seen - Chuck is a PLUS for the forum's integrity. I plead ignorance.Nevermind. Carry on....HOLY SHIT!!! FLASH NEWS!!!!Chuck77 has taken on the sobering duties of being an Administrator (ChuckAdmin)!Congratulations & welcome, Chuck! May you serve well! I tip my hat. I wouldn't take such an undertaking myself, being a lazy ass, but I know you will meet the challenge well.Edited by xongsmith, : ignorance

Don't get me wrong - I quite like Chuck too. But when he said this.... ....you have to admit he was being a bit of a dick and deserved to be pulled up on both the claim and the manner in which it was made.