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Author Topic:   Languages
Panda
Member (Idle past 3821 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 28 of 69 (632331)
09-07-2011 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by caffeine
09-07-2011 3:57 AM


Re: Languages
caffeine writes:
I've sat here for ages trying to identify any difference between the two sounds at all and can't.
Try and find the physical difference between pronouncing the bilabial plosives 'b' (as in 'butter') and 'p' (as in 'putter').
There must be a difference, but it is really difficult to identify.
And after a while even hearing the difference can be difficult.
Which moves nicely onto the McGurk effect...which I find fascinating.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by caffeine, posted 09-07-2011 3:57 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by caffeine, posted 09-07-2011 6:36 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3821 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 30 of 69 (632334)
09-07-2011 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by caffeine
09-07-2011 6:36 AM


Re: Languages
caffeine writes:
It is a good thing there is nobody else here in the office yet, as I have just sat here for a few minutes going "butter, putter, butter, putter, stop, top, stop, top". Colleagues would soon be doubting my sanity.
Ha ha.
Luckily I did it at home and got my GF to join in.
If you are going mad: it is nice to have company.
caffeine writes:
Unfortunately, it hasn't really helped my understanding. The physical differences in 'b' and 'p' were easy to identify (forgive me if the following description is a bit strained, but I don't know the technical terms). You start making both letters by bringing your lips together, and then releasing the air. With 'b', the shape of my mouth doesn't change before the air is released. With 'p', however, my cheeks swell a bit, changing the shape of the mouth cavity and presumably meaning more air is being released.
I thought something similar the first time I did that.
But I then found that the 'cheek puffing' was an unnecessary 'affectation'.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by caffeine, posted 09-07-2011 6:36 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by caffeine, posted 09-07-2011 7:17 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3821 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 33 of 69 (632341)
09-07-2011 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by caffeine
09-07-2011 7:17 AM


Re: Languages
caffeine writes:
If anyone else is as confused as me by trying to work this out - I'll save you having to look it up yourselves - the 't' sound in 'stop' is voiced, whereas it isn't in 'top' - meaning your vocal cords vibrate to produce the first, whereas the sound for the second is produced only by the air released from your mouth. You can feel this by holding your fingers to your throat as you say it. Which means the 't' in 'stop' is actually pretty much the same sound as 'd'.
This would imply that you can't whisper a 'd' or the word 'stop'?
Or does whispering use your vocal cords?
(I have always wondered why mutes can't whisper.)

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by caffeine, posted 09-07-2011 7:17 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by caffeine, posted 09-07-2011 9:38 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3821 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 44 of 69 (632467)
09-08-2011 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by caffeine
09-08-2011 5:54 AM


Re: Languages
caffeine writes:
Which, incidentally, brings to mind a pet-hate of mine on the topic of language - people who claim they don't have an accent.
I, of course, don't have an accent. This is just how things sound when they are pronounced properly.
-Jimmy Carr

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2011 5:54 AM caffeine has not replied

  
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