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Author Topic:   Languages
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 69 (631667)
09-02-2011 10:22 AM


Languages
We've a lot of people here at EVC and I was just wondering what languages people can speak or have tried their hand at and what they think of these languages and their experiences with them.
I only have English and Gaelic, but want to try and learn a Romance language soon.
Edited by Son Goku, : Title for post

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Jon, posted 09-02-2011 10:29 AM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 09-02-2011 10:40 AM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 4 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-02-2011 10:46 AM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 5 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-02-2011 11:01 AM Son Goku has replied
 Message 6 by caffeine, posted 09-02-2011 11:06 AM Son Goku has replied
 Message 10 by dwise1, posted 09-02-2011 1:36 PM Son Goku has replied
 Message 11 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-02-2011 4:35 PM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 20 by CosmicChimp, posted 09-05-2011 1:50 PM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 57 by Possessor, posted 10-24-2011 5:56 PM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 65 by bluescat48, posted 05-03-2012 9:29 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 69 (631691)
09-02-2011 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by caffeine
09-02-2011 11:06 AM


Re: Languages
caffeine writes:
There are seven cases and four genders, which means (taking into account singular and plural) fourteen ways of declining each noun and 56 ways of declening each adjective (lots of them are repeats, but the fact that 'eny' is the nominative and accusative plural as well as the genitive singular just makes sentences harder to understand.
Holy Fuck, 56 forms for the adjectives! That must be very difficult. How sensitive are native speakers to incorrect case inflection? In Gaelic people getting the genitive plural wrong is barely noticeable, and the genitive singular done incorrectly just seems a bit off, but I know there are languages where people don't have a clue what you are saying when you get them wrong, so what's Czech like?
What are the four genders, is it some sort of animate/inanimate thing?
Oh, are the sounds as difficult as people say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by caffeine, posted 09-02-2011 11:06 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by caffeine, posted 09-05-2011 8:22 AM Son Goku has replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 69 (631695)
09-02-2011 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Bolder-dash
09-02-2011 11:01 AM


Re: Languages
What languages can you speak Boulder-dash, I assume Chinese and English? Speaking a tonal language must be quite different. (Or maybe it's your native language)

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 Message 5 by Bolder-dash, posted 09-02-2011 11:01 AM Bolder-dash has replied

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Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 69 (631835)
09-03-2011 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by dwise1
09-02-2011 1:36 PM


Re: Languages
Wow, very interesting post! Was your German Hochdeutsch or some local flavour?
I can read Gidhlig with moderate effort, but it's hard to understand when spoken, even though it's supposed to be similar to Gaelainn. We used to have a single written standard "Gaelainn Chlasaiceach" which the Scots kept up for longer, so if something is written in that it's okay, but pure Scots Gaelic is difficult.
I'd like to try Welsh myself, it sounds lovely.

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 Message 17 by dwise1, posted 09-03-2011 3:28 PM Son Goku has replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 69 (632001)
09-05-2011 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by dwise1
09-03-2011 3:28 PM


Re: Languages
Most Germans I have worked with have some story about the incomprehensible dialect of some region. However on the other hand I've only ever met one German who claims to actually speak Hochdeutsch naturally.
It used to be the same in France except the government heavily pushed Siene Valley French on people over the last two hundred years.
I remember watching a program on Appalachian English, really interesting use of words and apparently the grammar is closer to Elizabethan English than most other dialects (Although this is sometimes over stated to it being identical to Elizabethan English.)
Actually how did you find Old English? I think it sounds incredibly authoritative, something a great warrior would speak, makes me wish English hadn't gone through the great vowel shift.
I'm familiar with the Welsh construction as we have it do, e.g.
Tim ag danamh na hoibre = I'm a doing the work
Although the literal translation of this construction and the way I actually hear it is:
I am at the work's performance/doing.
I think it's the same in Welsh, it's due to the Celtic languages being more noun focused, so what's a verbal construction in English is a noun construction in Welsh and Gaelic.
It must have been nice to study Welsh and the old Teach Yourself books are vastly superior to the new ones. The sounds are gorgeous, there's a reason Tolkien based Sindarin on it!
I'd love to hear from people who speak Chinese or an Asian language, I think Bluejay once said he did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by dwise1, posted 09-03-2011 3:28 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by dwise1, posted 09-05-2011 2:58 PM Son Goku has replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 69 (633032)
09-12-2011 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by caffeine
09-05-2011 8:22 AM


Re: Languages
caffeine writes:
As for whether they understand you properly, a lot depends on the context of what you're saying. If you're waving your hands around it's much easier, but even on the phone people can often tell what declension you're supposed to be using from context. The biggest problems often come from the simplest sentences, because a slight change in pronounciation can change 'Eva paid Jana' ('Eva Jan platila') to 'Jana paid Eva' ('Ev Jana platila'). When you grew up with an accent like mine where most vowels tend to become the same sound anyway this can cause problems.
Well at least it isn't too bad. I know in Finnish they don't have a clue what you're talking about if you get the declensions wrong.
caffeine writes:
But it gets even worse with '', a sound unique to Czech which is like a rolled r and the middle constanant in 'fusion' said at the same time. The word for asparagus begins with a soft 'ch', like in 'loch', followed immediately by a ''. I can't order asparagus in restaurants.
Wow!, I was listening to that sound, it seems almost impossible to pronounce. This is something I've noticed, any alveolar consonant (pronounced with the flesh ridge behind your teeth) is difficult if it isn't in your language, basically l and r sounds. For example the near impossible double ll sound of Welsh.

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Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 69 (633033)
09-12-2011 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by dwise1
09-05-2011 2:58 PM


Re: Languages
dwise1 writes:
For Irish it's West Munster
That's an interesting fact, that's my dialect.
dwise1 writes:
A number of regional accents in the US can be traced back to where the original settlers had come from and the state of their language at the time of settlement. Kind of like the Indo-European languages seem to represent the state of development of the language in the Indo-European homeland (we think on the Steppes north of the Black Sea) as each group migrated out from it.
I don't know if you've read "The Horse, the Wheel and Language" by David Anthony, but he uses migration into the U.S. as an example of the various processes involved in the evolution of Proto-Indo-European.
Very interesting post in general!

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Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 69 (636374)
10-06-2011 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by caffeine
09-08-2011 5:54 AM


Czech
caffeine, I was wondering, is Czech the first language you've learned? I've been asking around after reading this thread and apparently knowing Czech makes you some kind of language god, apparently it's the hardest Indo-European language to learn. So, if it's your first, that's really impressive.

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 Message 43 by caffeine, posted 09-08-2011 5:54 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by caffeine, posted 10-06-2011 6:34 AM Son Goku has replied
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Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 69 (661188)
05-03-2012 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by caffeine
10-06-2011 6:34 AM


Re: Czech
I remembered this thread when I was browsing through the languages section of a book store. I was reading the introductions to various books in the "Colloquial" series (a really good series I think). For virtually every language the introduction went something like:
"X is an exciting language to start learning, whether you live in X-land, have an interest in X-culture or X-literature, there has never been a better time to learn X....."
For some of the harder languages it said:
"X has a reputation as a hard language. However it also has (list of easy features) and the grammar is quite systematic"
Then for Czech:
"Czech is a very difficult language, no foolish promises will be made regarding your ability to learn it"
It was literally the only text that wasn't "Yay, you can do it!".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by caffeine, posted 10-06-2011 6:34 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
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