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Author | Topic: The Essence Of Faith & Belief. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
![]() Sounds rather cost inefficient to me, though to be fair it is better to give it away than gamble it. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8
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I don't see the same people repeatedly. What... I'm... saying... is... I don't turn somebody down just because he might use the money to buy beer or drugs. If he tells me he needs money for food or bus fare, I give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't polygraph him. I don't follow him and blacklist him if he wasn't telling the truth.
All too often, "He'll probably spend it on drugs," is an excuse to do nothing.
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
quote: Maybe you should change the title of the thread to Faith, nebulous Hope, Charity and Belief.
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Taq Member Posts: 8525 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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From a pragmatic view, it is far more cost effecient to set a low bar for welfare recipients than it is to spend massive amounts of money making sure that the recipients are good people. You don't spend a dollar to cure a dime's worth of waste.
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
We don't want to hoard it or waste it. It is wise to use common sense when giving to street people. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God — only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
Are we though? Is it wiser to give the money to a panhandler or to spend it at Starbucks?
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
![]() Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God — only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I do.
That's fine. Just don't make silly claims that you are helping when you do as you do. You've advanced a scenario where your trust in the person is going to elevate them somehow. I have direct experience that says it does not. And frankly there is no real evidence that you give a hoot since you don't make any effort to see the same people. But it's your money and your conscience. Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8
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quote: That's God's policy. Why would you supersede it?
Do you? quote:
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8
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I didn't make any claim. I said that I don't like to risk not helping when a couple of dollars might help.
Your direct experience of a dog with three legs does not disprove the existence of dogs with four legs.
I don't need to show you any evidence that I give a hoot.
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
(Whereupon Ringo quotes scripture) quote:
The scripture refers to us asking God...not each other. If more street people trusted God rather than attempting to sponge money off of every driver with an extra buck in their wallet, they might get off of the streets and not become codependant on begging. Mind you, I don't look for excuses not to give, but I also don't simply hand out money to whosoever asks. That isn't wise. (whereupon ringo again quotes scripture) quote:I wouldnt simply expect anyone and everyone to hand me money either. If I was in need and was in prayer, God would provide through His people. Edited by Phat, : added Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
On the other hand, let us not forget our many panhandlers...for we could end up as one of them. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3851 From: Adirondackia Joined:
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That's not fair. In my experience, the devil is far more free with his cash than, say, preachers. And all those prosperity churches had to come from somewhere--Jesus wouldn't fund them. "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
My ongoing point with Ringo is that one should use wisdom when giving money away. As for satan....he wont hesitate to buy you a drink, but he is more reluctant to help you move. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3851 From: Adirondackia Joined: |
Lovely English proverb, isn't it? More fishwife-like than Christ-like, though.
I noticed that
Perhaps, like me, Ringo hears quite a bit more "use wisdom" than "give money away." Jesus certainly didn't outline a process for grading the poor to sort out the deserving. I understand that no one wants to waste money, especially what we can afford to give away. But I'm accustomed to Christians testifying about their faith in the face of great unknowns and trials, so it seems odd: face the lions with panache, sure, but follow Christ's injunction (and Christ) by helping the first and next persons you see in need of help...well, that's just too dicey. How will God know who deserves my help? How will He put them in my path? I just can't believe that bit. Consider that the person most in need of help, by your rubric, will usually be the person appearing least deserving of it. The person most eligible for help is going to look a lot like you. Should you be right, and Jesus return, which one do you think he'd look like? -------------------------------------------------- NB: Now, you know I'm not a Christian, so you're probably thinking some of that criticism just ain't fair. Well, it wasn't criticism so much as commentary on the central fault in modern Christianity--it married money. Me, I'm more pagan anarchist than anything, prone to giving money away on impulse, guilty of handing out beers to bums walking through the Fens on New Year's eve in Boston. Hell, even winos deserve a drink on New Year's eve. If I happened to run into Jesus there, I definitely gave him a beer. Edited by Omnivorous, : Nice bunch of guys, too. "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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