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Author | Topic: Information's role in evolution.Should we put it more in the picture? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
zi ko Member (Idle past 3619 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
In humans knowledge represents the most significant aspect of life. In other higher organisms and in lower ones it plays important role also. .
Plants. Here we haven’t neural system. But plants have chemicals, hormones and pollen as ways of internal and external communication system. One cell organisms. Feeding substance or the lack of it, or irritants met on environment stand for sources of information. This type of information causes production of chemicals that lead to simple reaction of parts of the cell (genome, natural genetic engineering systems) or the whole of it. So we have here in away a mode of learning arc, where neural system is substituted by chemicals or the above engineering systems. Matter. If we make a bold jump of thought, we can say the four interactive forces, by which the simplest particles in the universe interact with one another, eg gravity, electromagnetism, weak and strong nuclear forces are all, in other words, expression of communication between them. So communication, eg information transfer is taking place even between non living matter staff and is essential to universe development. Of course this must happen on a more wide and complicated scale on living organisms and especially as regards to life development and evolution. It seems there is in nature, and it is logical to be, a continuum relating communication from simple matter to higher living beings. Each animal has billions of neural cells Is it logical to exclude this so rich and widespread function from the process of evolution ? This does not seem to be in accord to nature’s economy law. I believe this was the result of Darwinians dogmatic belief that knowledge has no any whatsoever serious effect on evolution process. That is why i believe we need to aknowledge the the importance of information's (and neural system's) role in evolution. Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Thread copied here from the Information's role in evolution.Should we put it more in the picture? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Learning does not transfer to the genes: behaviour does, but not cognition.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Oh come on Larni.
Look at them little brains in all them sperm cells. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Actually behaviour doesn't transfer to the genes either, rather it derives substantially from them.
TTFN, WK
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Yeah, your right.
But allele frequency does change as a result of adaptive behaviour. I guess 'transfer to' was pretty woolly thinking. And I can only really wade up to my knees in the sphere of genetics so I could be talking completely out of my arse.... But zi ko is wrong, lol.
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Look at them little brains in all them sperm cells. I'll read them some chemistry next time I'm washing them off the back of my hand. Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Actually behaviour doesn't transfer to the genes either, If said behavior was taking a radiation bath, then that could transfer to the genes, couldn't it?
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Not as a heritable tendency to take radiation baths.
TTFN, WK
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Touche!
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Is it logical to exclude this so rich and widespread function from the process of evolution ? Quite the opposite. The question is how do you define information as it relates to evolution, how do you measure it, and how do you model it. It is not a matter of excluding the idea of information. Rather, it is a question of how one models information in the process of evolution. The problem I think you are having is our disagreement with creationists as to how information is measured in these systems. For example, no creationist has been able to measure complex specified complexity (CSI) in any meaningful manner. I can find the thread later if you are interested, but there was a discussion at Uncommon Descent not too long ago where someone asked the creationists how they would calculate CSI for some very simple evolutionary examples. No one was able to do it, nor could they figure out how it could be done. On the flip side, one can derive information from genomic sequences by applying the theory of evolution. A perfect example of this is the SIFTER algorithm. SIFTER applies the theory of evolution to predict protein function, the functional information of a given sequence. From the paper:
quote: The result is an algorithm that can predict protein function with 96% accuracy, even with very little phylogenetic information to work from. So how do creationists apply ID theory to predict protein function?
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3619 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Learning does not transfer to the genes: behaviour does, but not cognition. This is an unfortunate Darwinism axioma.In view of recent scientific findingsit is not true..I expect arguments (logical or from science research) and not just assertions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3619 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Actually behaviour doesn't transfer to the genes either, rather it derives substantially from them. I agree about behavior. But information....Epigenetics had proved that information has effect on perigenome area. So there is the mechanism that transfers information to perigenome.On the other hand we keep in mind that this information comes during life span only. Think what the effect would be if the same type of information comes again and again over manny, maybe million, of generations by empathy. In any case you have not any relative research to disproof it. Not me either. So we can believe at the moment what we like. You have heard i suppose about the 'function driven evolution' in Genetic Phylogeny by Sean D. Pitman M.D. October 2004 Updated April 2008 .I don't give any teleology meaning to function. I simply say that it is in essense an evolution mode based on information transfer from environment to genome.About the same say Shapiro, b. Wright, Dobzansky, Weissman and Darwin himself. , Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3619 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Quite the opposite. The question is how do you define information as it relates to evolution, how do you measure it, and how do you model it. It is not a matter of excluding the idea of information. Rather, it is a question of how one models information in the process of evolution. It seems we agree. somehow. My Neuro-genic theory of evolution (http://www.sleepgadgetabs.com) tries exactly how to model information in the process of evolution.
The problem I think you are having is our disagreement with creationists as to how information is measured in these systems. I dont see it as a problem of mine. My theory has nothing to do with Creationism. Measuring information is a matter of research.If it is needed somebody will do it.------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by zi ko, : No reason given. Edited by zi ko, : No reason given. Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
It seems we agree. somehow. My Neuro-genic theory of evolution (http://www.sleepgadgetabs) tries exactly how to model information in the process of evolution.
Your link appears to be broken. Nonetheless, could you explain here how your theory can be used to analyze sequence data? Could you compare two homologous sequences from two species and show us how your theory can be used to measure the information in each sequence caused by neurogenic interactions?
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