A fatal logical flaw in creationism?

It's alright, apology accepted. I'm sorry for screwing around with the quote boxes, too.If you can be polite and non-judgemental then it's fine to learn how to debate here, everyone would be more than happy to help.I appriciate your strength of faith, and really we all do. If you don't know about something, feel free to ask away at the designated forum, and someone will usually explain or give you sources to look up.I can tell you're starting to understand more about evolution. Feel free to ask about anything you don't understand. Thanks for bein' here.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

Off-topic again; but I've seen this error a couple of times now. You're forgetting the orthodox churches. The division between the Western Roman church and the Eastern Orthodox church resulted from the "Photian Schism" of 867; or in the events around 1067, depending on how you look at it. Lots of information available on-line.Cheers -- Sylas

Thanks so much for the encouragment.
Don't worry about the boxes,even I had to laugh about it.
I know I've got alot of study ahead of me though,and crash courses don't seem to cut it.Would it be a normal day without you all?
I think you are all sweet and kind in your own way,at least I know that many of you are.
Be blessed in Jesus,Our Lord,amen.

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Desdamona

Hang in there. I got suspended twice already and I'm on their side...I looked at the suspension list and I'm the only non-christian (atheist) to ever get suspended here...but I'm always breakin' new ground.

I certainly agree with the division of the church as pertaining to the separation of the East and the West churches. The whole rejection of things like purgatory and the papacy by the East certainly worked to divide them.However, this isn't really my point. I'm classifying them together based on what Des's personal idea of "paganism" is. They both were extremely focused on liturgy (ritualistic forms of worship) and icons (Des makes a point about this). Both churches, from what I remember, advocated prayer for the dead, and that the living can aid in the salvation of the dead. Such things that both shared is why I grouped them together in reference to Des's idea of who "true Christians" are, which I'm assuming is mostly grounded from the ideas of Protestantism.I feel that my use of simply labeling them all as "Catholics" or "Holy Romans" was very miss-leading on my part and I apologize (edit: appologize changed to apologize), but for the argument I group them under one entity.I hope that clears up my meaning towards the issue. Haha, even Lam? Just kidding Lam.[This message has been edited by Garf, 04-23-2004]

Thats hard to amagine, You getting suspended here?
Wow!!! What kind of new ground do you like breaking?
Thanks for encouraging me!

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Desdamona

Yes,Lam is a bit rough,but he does seem very devoted to learning,detail,and challenging people to do their best.
I have to admire his dedication a great deal. Besides,very few males I know will argue that much with me about anything such as education and so forth.It's good to see that Lam doesn't care that I'm a female,and alot of the other fella's also don't seem to care here either ,and thats a refreshing change for me.Lam just makes me want to do my best and try even harder.It's like he challenges me to get it right. I admire that.Besides,I'm really not here to win alot of fans,or make enemy's either. Lam is o.k.

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Desdamona

Garf writes:

quote:

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Ironically the Puritans who established themselves for the beginnings of America did the same damn thing of persecuting those who did not believe their way.

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I've been reading your posts, Garf, and I find very little to argue with, so you might consider this nitpicking. However, I just wanted to point out that your use of the word 'ironically' in the above statement would have been completely inaccurate at the time the Puritans were coming to America. The Puritans had never even considered the idea of a government separate from the church. Protestantism was new and, like Catholicism, where it reigned it reigned absolutely. Persecuting those of different faiths (or of no faith for that matter) was quite natural to them. Religious tolerance was an idea whose time had not yet come.

I don't care if you're a woman or half woman half man. I treat everyone equally.Good to see something positive from you. And excuse my impatience.

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The Laminator

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I hope I'm not one of your enemies either, des. I know I said some harsh things last night, but a couple nights ago I think I was one of the first that suggested that some of us should lighten up a bit and allow you time to digest some of the information we were giving you.You seem to have come quite a bit further since last night than I would have expected. I suppose I should have anticipated a bit of back-sliding by you and I won't be surprised if there is any in future. I sincerely hope you're serious about studying these issues.I would still advise that the Asimov book I mentioned earlier would be a good place for you to start. It's written with people like you in mind: those who do not know much about earth or the cosmos. It's fairly short and shouldn't require a lot of study to grasp. You'll come away with a much better understanding of what science has taught us about the history of earth and the universe.Another reason I so strongly suggest you start with that book is the fact that, to my mind, the concepts involved in studying the universe are much simpler to understand than the concepts behind evolution. I must admit, though, that this could simply be because of the way my own mind works. In school, I did much better at physical science and cosmology than I did at biology and zoology.

Hehe, nitpick all you want, I'll sound less like a buffoon when trying to convey my meaning. The word "ironic" in this sentence was used in reference to the persecuted becoming the persecutors. You are correct of course with regards to religious tolerance. Such ideas really didn't take root until after the Thirty Years War in the early 1600s. Sorry if I wasn't that clear in using the word "ironic".

Thank you very much Lam.I do like your honesty.I'm glad that you treat everyone fair.I have no doubt you could teach if you ever chose to.We all get impatient at times,so no problem.

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Desdamona

I don't think of you as an enemy.I have noticed that when new christians come into the faith that they also have a tendency to grow a little,and then back slide,and grow some more.It does seem to go on this way for awhile.I think it's how we learn.If we were so use to a set of ideas and rules,ect....,we don't seem to accept change in our thinking and in our lives so easily,especially at first.Can that book be bought at a book store?
When we get use to things being a certain way it's hard to change,change means we don't just change our minds,we must change our lives too,because it just seems to follow.Even if we don't realize that we are doing it at the time,we do resist and have a tendency to resist the new and unknown,unchartered waters.It's a whole new world and sometimes we may worry what we will become as a result of it all.It's not my faith that I feel I would lose,it's more about having to adjust to a new me,and how I will be different,but I know thats something that is part of life if we want to really be alive and live.In my honest opinion,you are not really living unless you are growing,but it can be scary at first when it's something brand new. Learning about all of this is brand new for me.I enjoyed the rush in the beginning,but I began to get afraid,not of losing my faith in God,but about losing the me that I'm so use to,yet I know it's time to move on and grow.

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Desdamona

This is the most encouraging thing I've ever heard you say, des. I'm very impressed and I hope you're sincere. As I've told you before, no one wants you to lose your faith in God; that's yours to keep and I hope you do.Whatever God has given you, you must admit he has given you the ability to think and to reason. He didn't intend that you should neglect that ability.

Kudos for your improvements.You, however, are still not putting spaces after your periods and commas.Blank lines between paragraphs are very nice also.Adminnemooseusps: Please no message responses to this message. Just keep working on your writing form.pps: And remember, NEVER use Brads messages as "how to" guides.ppps: Please Brad, no responses to this message. We all love you, even though we have so much trouble following what your writing.