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Author Topic:   Im New here. Evolutionist or Creationist site?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 16 of 37 (619160)
06-08-2011 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by tesla
06-08-2011 9:30 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
tesla writes:
Those creation sermons have been taught and heavily studied first before all things--in any depth--and is a common belief of most.
People want to know the truth, and on some level they trust science. If science is selling another tooth fairy bullshit religion like any other religion being practice I want more cooperation in discovering that truth.
Call it science call it church; call it a figment of your imagination. 75% or more of the planet think it’s the most important thing to life. So either sell us honesty or admit you’re just another bullshit religion with no real answers.
You say all of this as if the validity of scientific research exists in a vacuum.
In my book, what's important is the results.
Can you give us at least a dozen things that resulted from creationist research that have benefitted humanity? Actually, a couple should do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by tesla, posted 06-08-2011 9:30 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by tesla, posted 06-08-2011 9:44 PM Taz has replied
 Message 27 by ICANT, posted 06-09-2011 12:13 AM Taz has not replied
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tesla
Member (Idle past 1592 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 17 of 37 (619162)
06-08-2011 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
06-08-2011 9:33 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
Can you give us at least a dozen things that resulted from creationist research that have benefitted humanity? Actually, a couple should do.
Some of the greatest acts and most horrible things have been done in the name of God. It has united peoples, it has split them. It has been attributed to the birth of children. And it has been attributed to the greatest catastrophes. It was in keeping record of this that language became important. It has been one of the most important factors in the progression of the human race.
When the time of death is on a man, his mind goes straight to God.
It is there when your lonely, and to the desperate who have nowhere else to go.
Now what has science done that is greater than this?
A microwave oven? cars? Gameboy? Didn’t our ancestors laugh and cry? Win and lose? Dream in life?
They did not have that stuff.
So what does science have to offer for this?

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 9:33 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 9:48 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied
 Message 19 by subbie, posted 06-08-2011 10:16 PM tesla has replied
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 06-08-2011 10:26 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 18 of 37 (619163)
06-08-2011 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by tesla
06-08-2011 9:44 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
tesla writes:
So what does science have to offer for this?
Since our ancestors survived without the internet, you should unhook your internet connection and stop pestering us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by tesla, posted 06-08-2011 9:44 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 19 of 37 (619164)
06-08-2011 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by tesla
06-08-2011 9:44 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
tesla writes:
Can you give us at least a dozen things that resulted from creationist research that have benefitted humanity? Actually, a couple should do.
Some of the greatest acts and most horrible things have been done in the name of God. It has united peoples, it has split them. It has been attributed to the birth of children. And it has been attributed to the greatest catastrophes. It was in keeping record of this that language became important. It has been one of the most important factors in the progression of the human race.
When the time of death is on a man, his mind goes straight to God.
It is there when your lonely, and to the desperate who have nowhere else to go.
Now what has science done that is greater than this?
A microwave oven? cars? Gameboy? Didn’t our ancestors laugh and cry? Win and lose? Dream in life?
They did not have that stuff.
So what does science have to offer for this?
Funny, I thought the question was, "Can you give us at least a dozen things that resulted from creationist research that have benefitted humanity? Actually, a couple should do." You ignored that and presented a screed of purported benefits of religion. Can you answer the question actually asked?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by tesla, posted 06-08-2011 9:44 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 37 (619165)
06-08-2011 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by tesla
06-08-2011 9:44 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
tesla writes:
Some of the greatest acts and most horrible things have been done in the name of God.
Tesla, If you're referring to the Biblical god, Jehovah, he is to be feared by any who try to fight him or mess with his messianic nation, Israel, dividing their heritage land, He is a jealous god who will tolerate no other gods concocted by his highest intelligent creature, fashioned after his own image.
He is a consuming fire to those who oppose him. Via Obama, as I predicted back in '08 when he was lying to Israel, assuring them that he would do them good. America is undermining/cursing Israel. Jehovah is undermining America, turning the storms & floods on the cities and allowing the destruction of our highest towers, etc. Go figure.
The global flood came because Jehovah couldn't stand the stench of abominations going on on the planet. Those days are fast emerging on the planet again. Better dig a hole and hope to be among the "few men surviving." as per the prophet Isaiah 24:4-6
quote:
4 The (A)earth mourns and withers, the world fades and withers, the (B)exalted of the people of the earth fade away. 5 The earth is also (C)polluted [a]by its inhabitants, for they transgressed laws, violated statutes, (D)broke the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore, a (E)curse devours the earth, and those who live in it are held guilty. Therefore, the (F)inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men are left.
Btw, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Obama as the next UN Secretary General. He campaigned globally in '08 and has been campaigning globally ever since.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 21 of 37 (619166)
06-08-2011 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by subbie
06-08-2011 10:16 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
I'll start.
(1) Anti-biotics - this direct result of scientific research has saved literally hundreds of millions of people since its invention.
(2) Genetic engineering - Food production has increased by several orders of magnitude to feed the booming population of the world.
There, I just gave 2 examples from areas in science I know almost nothing about.
Surely, tesla can give us a few examples of creationist research that have benefitted mankind.

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tesla
Member (Idle past 1592 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 22 of 37 (619167)
06-08-2011 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by subbie
06-08-2011 10:16 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
Can you answer the question actually asked?
So what does science have to offer for this?
The answer is subjective.
But objectively examine the situation. Science needs funding to improve knowledge. Religion needs funding to be taught.
Where are people going to spend their money?
You have to research What the people are buying. If you want to sell your science you need to be attempting to answer The [answers to] questions that people are paying for. And knowledge of God gets top dollar.
You cannot research the distant galaxies with any effectiveness if you do not even know what the sun or moon is.
So you can't just "look for God" until you first understand the ‘basics’ of the basic Human.
Cognitive function is recorded and sent in the brain, so what does it take to decipher how it works?
I say: here's a starting point" you say that’s not supernatural.
If you find a way to further true knowledge, be honest with what we do know and don't know . But tell the people you want to research the brain in hopes of discovering consciousness and God. With real science. Discovering real things. and not closing your mind that God may exist, and it would probably be funded.
There is no more evidence for dark matter than there is for God scientifically. But we are learning things by investigating potentials.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

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 Message 19 by subbie, posted 06-08-2011 10:16 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 06-08-2011 11:05 PM tesla has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 23 of 37 (619168)
06-08-2011 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by tesla
06-08-2011 10:43 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
If you are not going to answer the question, maybe you shouldn't quote the question in your post.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by tesla, posted 06-08-2011 10:43 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
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tesla
Member (Idle past 1592 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 24 of 37 (619169)
06-08-2011 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Theodoric
06-08-2011 11:05 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
If you are not going to answer the question, maybe you shouldn't quote the question in your post.
I did answer it. I told you it's subjective.
So my answer is subjective. It's my answer. what is yours?

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 06-08-2011 11:05 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 25 of 37 (619171)
06-08-2011 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AZPaul3
06-06-2011 5:33 PM


Re: Quite Disparate.
AZPaul3 writes:
As noted by the others in this thread, however, if one should venture into one of the science forums he had better know his science stuff or he will get his teeth kicked in. Note I did not say one needs to believe in the science, but one does need to know the language, definitions and concepts, in addition to having something more than just faith to discuss.
I don't quite agree with this and can use myself as an example. I don't have any science background and don't understand much of the lingo. However, I found that if you pick your spots, go in with an attitude that you're here to learn and not be too assertive, there are any number of incredibly knowledgable folks on this forum that will do everything in their power to give you a free education.

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 Message 6 by AZPaul3, posted 06-06-2011 5:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 26 of 37 (619173)
06-09-2011 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by GDR
06-08-2011 11:40 PM


Re: Quite Disparate.
I can definitely support this. But having seen some of Chuck77's posts I am not sure he carried this inquisitiveness. I hope I'm wrong. The education here, not just in science but in religions, personalities, insights and stupidities, is quite broad.

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 27 of 37 (619175)
06-09-2011 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
06-08-2011 9:33 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
Hi Taz,
Taz writes:
Actually, a couple should do.
I will see if I can accommodate you.
"Nicholas of Cusa (1401—1464) Catholic cardinal and theologian who made contributions to the field of mathematics by developing the concepts of the infinitesimal and of relative motion?
Otto Brunfels (1488—1534) A theologian and botanist from Mainz, Germany. His Catalogi virorum illustrium is considered to be the first book on the history of evangelical sects that had broken away from the Catholic Church. In botany his Herbarum vivae icones helped earn him acclaim as one of the "fathers of botany".
Michael Servetus (1511—1553) In science wrote on astronomy and his theological work "Christianismi Restitutio" contained the first European description of the function of pulmonary circulation.
Giordano Bruno (1548—1600) Italian philosopher, priest, cosmologist, and occultist, known for espousing the idea the that Earth revolves around the Sun and that many other worlds revolve around other suns.
Ren Descartes (1596—1650) He was a key thinker of the Scientific Revolution. He is also honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important work on invariants and geometry
Nicolas Steno (1638—1686) Lutheran convert to Catholicism, his beatification in that faith occurred in 1987. As a scientist he is considered a pioneer in both anatomy and geology, but largely abandoned science after his religious conversion.
John Wallis (1616—1703) As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis, introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product. He also devised a system for teaching the non-speaking deaf. He was also a Calvinist inclined chaplain who was active in theological debate.
Isaac Newton (1643—1727) He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and mathematicians in history. His scientific fame notwithstanding, Newton's study of the Bible and of the early Church Fathers were among his greatest passions,..." Source
You can find more than a hundred at this site.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 9:33 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Chuck77
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 28 of 37 (619185)
06-09-2011 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
06-08-2011 9:33 PM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
From Taz "Can you give us at least a dozen things that resulted from creationist research that have benefitted humanity? Actually, a couple should do. "
Taz here's few for starters:
Robert Boyle - scientist and chemist
Michael Faraday - physicist, formulated laws electromagnetic induction, did groundwork for making dynamos, electric motors and transformers
James Joule - science of thermodynamics
William Thompson a.k.a. Lord Kelvin - thermodynamics and the Kelvin, temperature scale
Johannes Kepler - laws of planetary motion (more on Kepler)
Carl Linnaeus - botanist, professor
Matthew Maury - leading scientist in oceanography and hydrography
James Clerk Maxwell - electromagnetic theory
Samuel F.B. Morse - invented the telegraph, Morse code is named after him
Isaac Newton - laws of gravity, motion and calculus
Blaise Pascal - invented early calculator, helped discover the theory of probability
Louis Pasteur - invented vaccination, immunization and pasteurization
Sir Henry Rawlinson - archaeologist
George Stokes - physicist and mathematician
All of these Scientists were Creationists. They all Believed in God and believed in Creation. Taz, im suprised you didn't know this.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 29 of 37 (619186)
06-09-2011 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by ICANT
06-09-2011 12:13 AM


Re: Creation/Evolution?
The question wasn't, "Which famous scientists happened to be religious?" Tons of modern scientists are religious, too. A couple famous ones are Francis Collins of the Human Genome Project and Laurance Doyle of SETI.
The question was, "What contributions to science have been made by creationist research?"
--Percy

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 30 of 37 (619187)
06-09-2011 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Chuck77
06-09-2011 12:46 AM


Christian scientists / Creationist scientists
To what degree your list of Christian scientists (and those of the previous message list) were also creationist scientists, I'm not certain. But even if they all were, most of their scientific achievements were in fields that didn't conflict with creationism.
In the early days of modern science (say 200-300 years ago?), most of the scientists were probably quite religious. Being religious and being well educated probably went hand in hand. Many were also probably young Earth creationist, for that was the norm of the time. But the ones that made advancement were the ones who were willing to discard or modify their creationist beliefs in the face of conflicting evidence.
Or something like that.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
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