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Author Topic:   REMBD and Neurodegenerative Disorders
BMG
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 16 of 22 (618382)
06-03-2011 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 12:01 PM


Re: Just Research
Hey, CS.
I have a hard time with the whole loosing consciousness part of sleeping, like I can lay there for a while all ready to be sleeping and motionless with eyes closed and just not loose consciousness. Plus, I'm awoken fairly easily...
I am not a doctor or sleep specialist, obviously, but what you are describing, at least according to WebMD, sounds similar to chronic insomnia.
quote:
People with insomnia have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep. They may wake up during the night or wake up too early the next morning...A chronic sleep problem is ongoing. This is called chronic insomnia. It is often a symptom of another health problem, such as depression or chronic pain.
Sometimes, more rare than common, I have a similar problem of not being able to fall asleep; it is usually due to excessive stress, or a disruption in my exercise routine. There can be a number of causes in your case; one line of inquiry may begin by researching your family history; do others in your family suffer from sleep disorders(if too personal, please do not answer this)? Or perhaps analyze your lifestyle habits: sleeping patterns, diet, exercise, etc?
I tried unsuccessfully to induce lucid dreaming..Then you get to have all the fun you want to... Problem for me was that everytime I realized that I was dreaming, I would wake up )
When I "realize" that I am in a dream, I am no longer in a "deep" sleep. I "slip" from a certain state of consciousness(SOC), that deep sleep, and am almost in between two SOC's, awake and deep sleep: I'm in limbo. I do not like being here, for my fear that I will wake leads to me waking.
I've never heard of the REM-BD before, but I think I might be on to something now. So thanks for sharing!
Any time. I hope by sharing this at EVC we can somehow come to a better understanding of this issue together: as a forum.
Have you noticed any correlation between how heavily your sleeping and how much moving around or talking your doing? I feel like I only move either at the start or the end of the sleep but not during the middle.
I originally held this belief, but do not think I can keep it. If I am in a deep sleep, then I am likely not aware of sleeping, for as my awareness of being asleep grows, the depth of my sleep lessens. If I am not aware of sleeping, then I am likely not aware of talking or moving about. I am not very certain about this belief, either, though.
You said you don't want pills, but both diphenhydramine (benadryl) and melatonin have worked at making me sleep more heavily...
Thank you for the suggestions, but the one sleep medication that seems to have the greatest efficacy for me is marijuana. Yet I am weaning myself from this, as well. I am trying to reduce my dependence on any medication for sleep.
sorry for the random thoughts thrown together, I've been typing this while doing other things and heavily editing and just slapping it together
Not a problem, CS. Thanks for replying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 12:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2011 10:06 AM BMG has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 22 (618417)
06-03-2011 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by BMG
06-03-2011 2:24 AM


Re: Just Research
I am not a doctor or sleep specialist, obviously, but what you are describing, at least according to WebMD, sounds similar to chronic insomnia.
The thing about the REMBD that really stuck out was the arm/leg movement and I don't see that in the insomnia.
Sometimes, more rare than common, I have a similar problem of not being able to fall asleep; it is usually due to excessive stress, or a disruption in my exercise routine.
Isolated cases can be caused by all kinds of crap including just caffiene or some anxiety or something.
There can be a number of causes in your case; one line of inquiry may begin by researching your family history; do others in your family suffer from sleep disorders(if too personal, please do not answer this)?
Yeah, I'm betting there's some genetics involved too.
Or perhaps analyze your lifestyle habits: sleeping patterns, diet, exercise, etc?
Yikes, I'm definately avoiding that at this place in my life I already know that I'm lazy and filthy.
When I "realize" that I am in a dream, I am no longer in a "deep" sleep. I "slip" from a certain state of consciousness(SOC), that deep sleep, and am almost in between two SOC's, awake and deep sleep: I'm in limbo. I do not like being here, for my fear that I will wake leads to me waking.
I've never "slipped between" but the sensation I get that leads to the waking does seem to stemm from fear. You're right, its like you're afraid that your gonna wake up, so then you do wake up.
Any time. I hope by sharing this at EVC we can somehow come to a better understanding of this issue together: as a forum.
Have you noticed any correlation between how heavily your sleeping and how much moving around or talking your doing? I feel like I only move either at the start or the end of the sleep but not during the middle.
I originally held this belief, but do not think I can keep it. If I am in a deep sleep, then I am likely not aware of sleeping, for as my awareness of being asleep grows, the depth of my sleep lessens. If I am not aware of sleeping, then I am likely not aware of talking or moving about. I am not very certain about this belief, either, though.
So, like me, you experiece it more at the beginning or end than the middle... You say: " as my awareness of being asleep grows, the depth of my sleep lessens", but maybe its visa versa: as the depth lessens your awareness grows. Eh? Just a thought...
I was thinking about it, and realizing that the REM sleep is in the middle and my problems are on the ends makes me think it might have nothing todo with this REMBD... but then again, maybe it has something to do with the transiltion to REM. Any clue? I haven't read much yet.
Thank you for the suggestions, but the one sleep medication that seems to have the greatest efficacy for me is marijuana.
Awe man, I just love smokin' weed. I quit though, 'cause I'd rather have a good job. Which pisses me off that that is even a decision I have to make. But that's another story.
Yet I am weaning myself from this, as well. I am trying to reduce my dependence on any medication for sleep.
Why? How old are you? (I'm 30)
Not a problem, CS. Thanks for replying.
You're welcome. Best of luck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by BMG, posted 06-03-2011 2:24 AM BMG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by BMG, posted 06-03-2011 10:46 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 22 (618419)
06-03-2011 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by hooah212002
06-02-2011 4:32 PM


Re: He
namely heartburn medication
Ever try Ranitidine? The off brand stuff is cheap and I find it to be really effective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 06-02-2011 4:32 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by hooah212002, posted 06-03-2011 10:28 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 19 of 22 (618427)
06-03-2011 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by New Cat's Eye
06-03-2011 10:09 AM


Re: He
I have some now. The cheap Walmart/Walgreens/Shopko stuff does work for me, but I have to ingest copious amounts: 2 150mg tabs, twice a day at least and I still get heartburn. The same goes for branded Zantac. The best I've found thus far (at least for me) has been Prevacid. Up until the past couple weeks, I've been able to take 1 pill every 2-3 days and be fine and barely get heartburn, let alone the indigestion that comes with it. However, I've not been able to find off brand Prevacid that works as well and Prevacid is fucking expensive. Hopefully my new job will have a flex-fund option....

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2011 10:09 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 22 (618428)
06-03-2011 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by BMG
06-02-2011 1:30 AM


Re: An Inquiry
Digging a little deeper, I discovered that recent research studies are suggesting a possible correlation between REMBD and neurodegenerative disorders, such as Parkinson's Disease, dementia without parkonsinism, and multiple system atrophy. (Yes, correlation does not necessarily mean causation...)
I know someone with Parkinson's Disease who has frequent night terrors (waking up shouting, kicking, etc.).

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by BMG, posted 06-02-2011 1:30 AM BMG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by BMG, posted 06-04-2011 2:28 AM Jon has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 21 of 22 (618435)
06-03-2011 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
06-03-2011 10:06 AM


Re: Just Research
The thing about the REMBD that really stuck out was the arm/leg movement and I don't see that in the insomnia.
I found a website that may give us information about your RLS here:The Restless Leg Syndrome Foundation
The link I gave is under the "latest RLS research". I would like to look through this, but I must get ready for work.
Isolated cases can be caused by all kinds of crap including just caffiene or some anxiety or something.
Agreed.
Yikes, I'm definately avoiding that at this place in my life I already know that I'm lazy and filthy.
As we agree that sleep disorders are complex, and multifaceted, I found this link from the National Sleep Foundation, which, among other things, stresses the importance and interrelatedness of diet, exercise and sleep.
quote:
By now you probably realize that health is complex — if one part of the body system suffers, you’re likely to see consequences in other areas of your life. Though diet and exercise are critical components of healthy lifestyles, it’s also important to remember that sleep is inherently linked with how we eat (and how much), how we exercise (and whether or not we lose weight), and how we function on a daily basis. Getting the proper amount of sleep each night is necessary to face the world with your best foot forward. Sleep will help you on the road to good fitness, good eating and good health.
Just scanning it briefly, it does mention obesity; I am not making any assumptions , but perhaps that link can serve as a springboard for further research. Again, time is limited, so I cannot look through it thoroughly.
So, like me, you experiece it more at the beginning or end than the middle... You say: " as my awareness of being asleep grows, the depth of my sleep lessens", but maybe its visa versa: as the depth lessens your awareness grows. Eh? Just a thought...
A very real possibility, yes.
I was thinking about it, and realizing that the REM sleep is in the middle and my problems are on the ends makes me think it might have nothing todo with this REMBD... but then again, maybe it has something to do with the transiltion to REM. Any clue? I haven't read much yet.
I am not sure. I have not read too much on this either. I want to research this now, but have very limited time. My next day off will be Monday. Yet, I thought I recall reading from a source that REMBD is not necessarily limited to REM sleep. A bit of a misnomer. I'll have to double check this last bit, though.
Awe man, I just love smokin' weed. I quit though, 'cause I'd rather have a good job. Which pisses me off that that is even a decision I have to make. But that's another story.
I enjoy it too, but my enjoyment is waning. I have been smoking since I was 14...I'm now 28. I'm getting a little burned out.
You're welcome. Best of luck.
Thanks, CS. You too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-03-2011 10:06 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 22 of 22 (618572)
06-04-2011 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jon
06-03-2011 10:31 AM


Night Terrors and troubling discoveries
Hey, Jon.
I know someone with Parkinson's Disease who has frequent night terrors (waking up shouting, kicking, etc.).
I'm sorry to hear that. I found another source that speaks of night terrors, REMBD, and the like here: The American Academy of Family Physicians.
According to this source, Night terrors are most prevalent in children, and rarely occur in adults. Symptoms include "blood-curdling screams, autonomic discharge, and limited recall." The sleep stage it most often occurs in is "deep sleep, early in sleep period (i.e. 1am-3am), stages 3 and 4 arousals on polysomnogram." In adults, some associated factors are psychiatric and neurological disorders (Parkinson's seems to fit in this category).
Night terrors are horrific. I can recall having one, but only one. If this person you speak of has them regularly...
(Also, although nightmares are different from night terrors, I found that nightmares can be induced from several types of medications, medications "that affect the neurotransmitter levels of the central nervous system, such as antidepressants, narcotics," and even "antiparkinsonian agents". Italics mine. Moreover, I'll have to go back and see CS's remedies for helping him sleep; perhaps some of them may alter the CNS neurotransmitter levels...
ABE: Continuing on this tangent, benzodiazepines are included as altering CNS NT levels. Just look at this list of all that fall under the benzo category, Benzodiazepine List
This source cites as a remedy for REMBD, Clonazepam (Klonopin). However, Clonazepam is a benzodiazepine. This seems troubling.
This source suggests, as others have as well, a link between REMBD and neurodegenerative disorders, such as "Parkinson's, dementia, and narcolepsy." It also reports that CT and MRI's of patients with REMBD may reveal "diffuse hemispheric lesions, bilateral thalamic abnormalities or brain stem lesions."
Thanks for sharing, Jon. I wish the best for this person.
Edited by BMG, : Additions.
Edited by BMG, : Benzodiazepine, CNS NT altering drugs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 06-03-2011 10:31 AM Jon has not replied

  
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