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Author Topic:   Jose Guerena
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 91 of 116 (618219)
06-02-2011 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Taz
06-02-2011 2:32 AM


Re: Really
Since I've asked you nicely to do this, anything else you say that's not accurate I will assume to be a lie. That makes you a liar.
Spoken like a true prick cop. Are you sure you wouldn't fit in?
As I have been trying to explain to crashfrog all this time, which crash has refused to acknowledge (aka lie), there are varying levels of offenses and varying levels of loopholes. Crash was trying to make the point that ALL offenses are equal. Meaning going just 1 mph over the speed limit is a criminal offense.
Not exactly. The point you're missing is that all laws are expected to be followed. There aren't any "sotra" laws that you may or may not follow, regardless of the severity of the offense.
Its hypocritical of you to despise loopholes and speed slow enough that you won't get a ticket.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 2:32 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Modulous, posted 06-02-2011 11:44 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 94 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 1:17 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 92 of 116 (618236)
06-02-2011 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Really
Its hypocritical of you to despise loopholes and speed slow enough that you won't get a ticket.
I think Taz despises criminals that use loopholes to avoid conviction, not the majority of citizens that violate traffic laws in ways too minor for the majority of police officers to consider worthy of spending tax payers time and money pursuing.
Taz would only be a hypocrite if he was accused of a criminal offense (especially the violent or property related crimes he cited) in which there was 'smoking gun evidence' of his guilt, but his lawyer argued that because the chain of custody was not rigidly followed (especially if it was, but some signature was missing or date was not entered into the correct box on some form), he should be acquitted. Or some situation that was actually analogous to the kind of thing he said he despised.
You can't accuse him of hypocrisy unless you can cite him stating he despises people that break civil or traffic laws in minor ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 10:11 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 12:04 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 116 (618238)
06-02-2011 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Modulous
06-02-2011 11:44 AM


Re: Really
What with all the insults and bitching, I'm not really sure just what it is he despises...
ABE:
Okay, I've looked:
The original quote was:
quote:
And I hate people who take advantage of loopholes. I've lived my life as clean as I could. Heck, I don't even drive more than 10 over the speed limit on the interstate.
That's hilariously hypocritical in my opinion.
But later:
quote:
Haha, ok. Correction, I've never been accused or convicted of violating any criminal law.
So, yeah, you're right.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Modulous, posted 06-02-2011 11:44 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 1:20 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 94 of 116 (618249)
06-02-2011 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Really
CS writes:
The point you're missing is that all laws are expected to be followed.
Since when did we become a strict authoritarian state? Not all laws are equal. In fact, there are many laws in the law book that haven't been followed for a couple generations. Usually, these outdated laws were created for a specific purpose and then people forgot about them.
Its hypocritical of you to despise loopholes and speed slow enough that you won't get a ticket.
No, it is not. I have stated very clearly that I'm not a perfectionist by any stretch of imagination. And as such, I don't expect perfection from anybody. I think many offenses are forgivable and can get away with a slap on the wrist. Most of such offenses were committed either by mistake, absent-mindedness, or just plain stupidity.
But there are offenses that we know for sure weren't a mistake when they were committed. In fact, they were committed through careful planning and malice.
Again, going 7 over is not a criminal offense by any stretch of imagination.
Since when did we become a white and black society? Either we follow all laws or we don't follow them at all. Either everyone goes to a criminal island or nobody goes. Either you are a criminal or you're not.
Are you willing to admit that you're putting words in my mouth and that you're trying to make me into some kind of hypocritical perfectionist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 10:11 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 1:55 PM Taz has replied
 Message 103 by crashfrog, posted 06-14-2011 5:24 PM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 95 of 116 (618250)
06-02-2011 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 12:04 PM


Re: Really
Yes, CS, take my quote completely out of context. Ignore everything I said around that quote.
What you're doing is citing these quotes as if they were in a vacuum. It is incredibly easy to make a person say something they're not saying by doing this.
Lying must be a new fad these days with catholics on motorcycles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 12:04 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 116 (618257)
06-02-2011 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taz
06-02-2011 1:17 PM


Re: Really
Oh quit being such a whiny little bitch. You're getting to be about as bad as Theodoric.
Since when did we become a strict authoritarian state?
Since the cops decided that maintaining authority was more important than justice and the civilians' safety. Did you see those dancers get arrested at TJ memorial?
I think many offenses are forgivable and can get away with a slap on the wrist. Most of such offenses were committed either by mistake, absent-mindedness, or just plain stupidity.
But not speeding 7 miles over the limit.... You do that exact number on purpose because its the most you can go while still feeling comfortable that you won't get pulled over.
You're attitude still comes off as hypocritical even if your point technically was not. You feel that you can determine which laws you really don't have to follow, yet you want to throw other criminals on an island because they "don't deserve to breath the same air as you".
Disgusting.
But there are offenses that we know for sure weren't a mistake when they were committed. In fact, they were committed through careful planning and malice.
Again, going 7 over is not a criminal offense by any stretch of imagination.
But still not a mistake and committed through careful planning and malice. Regardless of the severity of the crime, you're attitude towards law itself is still comming off as hypocritical.
As if only criminal laws are the ones that you have to follow and the other ones you don't have to if you decide that your breaking of it isn't that bad and that you should really just get away with it
Just like a motherfucking cop!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 1:17 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Theodoric, posted 06-02-2011 2:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 98 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 2:34 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 97 of 116 (618265)
06-02-2011 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 1:55 PM


Amazing
Oh quit being such a whiny little bitch. You're getting to be about as bad as Theodoric.
You even make personal attacks against me when I am not even participating in the thread.
You really need to see someone about your Theodoric obsession.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 1:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 2:35 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 98 of 116 (618269)
06-02-2011 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 1:55 PM


Re: Really
Now you're just rambling. I really had trouble following you this time.
Anyway, take a look at this case.
Sex offender gets life sentence for abduction, rape of Jaycee Dugard
Now that the guy has been sentenced to life imprison, I don't understand why I have to feed, clothe, and shelter him. A life sentence is just that. It's using my tax dollars to let him live a relatively comfortable life till he dies.
But not speeding 7 miles over the limit....
You're going on a limb here. Again, go back and read the conversation between crash and I. Crash made the ridiculous statement that going just 1 over the speed limit makes me a criminal. He claims to see no distinction between going just 1 over the speed limit and committing a criminal offense like armed robbery. Are you going to start doing the same thing? Are you going to claim that all offenses are equal? Because that's what you're starting to sound like.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 1:55 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by crashfrog, posted 06-14-2011 5:30 PM Taz has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 99 of 116 (618271)
06-02-2011 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Theodoric
06-02-2011 2:21 PM


Re: Amazing
You really need to see someone about your Theodoric obsession.
You got any evidence for that assertion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Theodoric, posted 06-02-2011 2:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 100 of 116 (618273)
06-02-2011 2:52 PM


Here is the wiki article about the kidnapping of Jaycee Dugard. Sad story.
Kidnapping of Jaycee Dugard - Wikipedia
So, basically, this guy had a history of sexual assault on young girls. He was sent to prison where my parents' tax dollars paid for his comfort, promptly released, allowed more opportunities to commit more sexual assaults, etc. He then kidnapped a 5th grader and kept her in a tent in his backyard for 18 years.
And now, my tax dollars will be used to feed and shelter him for the rest of his life.
This makes no sense to me. And according to crashfrog and CS, apparently there's no difference between me speeding 7 over and this guy's lifetime of criminal activity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 2:54 PM Taz has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 116 (618274)
06-02-2011 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Taz
06-02-2011 2:52 PM


And according to crashfrog and CS, apparently there's no difference between me speeding 7 over and this guy's lifetime of criminal activity.
Now who's the liar?
Or are you just stupid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 2:52 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 4:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 102 of 116 (618296)
06-02-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by New Cat's Eye
06-02-2011 2:54 PM


Re-read the messages. Crash has made it perfectly clear that me speeding just a couple miles over the speed limit makes me a criminal. You have made it clear that you're arguing along the same line as crashfrog.
What, you're going to play semantics with me now?
Edit.
This is not to mention that both your and crashfrog's entire argument rests on a fallacy. Ever heard of tu quoque?
Rather than addressing my main points, you two are trying to divert attention away from my main points and keep trying to make this ridiculous argument that I'm a criminal for speeding even a couple mph over the speed limit.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-02-2011 2:54 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 103 of 116 (620190)
06-14-2011 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taz
06-02-2011 1:17 PM


Re: Really
Since when did we become a strict authoritarian state? Not all laws are equal. In fact, there are many laws in the law book that haven't been followed for a couple generations.
You're right, and we should get rid of laws we don't need anymore.
But surely you can see the slippery slope involved in personal judgments about what laws are supposed to be followed and what aren't? What's the practical difference between your judgment that traffic laws aren't "real" laws and, say, Smokey McPot's judgment that marijuana prohibitions aren't "real" laws? Seems to me that the level of harm is equivalent in both cases, so that's no recourse.
Most of such offenses were committed either by mistake, absent-mindedness, or just plain stupidity.
What about the people, like you, who are breaking laws that they think shouldn't count? What about the people doing things they don't think should be against the law in the first place? Is that "mistake, absent-mindedness, or just plain stupidity"? For that matter, when you break the law by speeding, are you making a mistake, being absent-minded, or just stupid? Which of those excuses do you grant to yourself?
Are you willing to admit that you're putting words in my mouth and that you're trying to make me into some kind of hypocritical perfectionist?
You've made yourself into a hypocritical perfectionist by complaining about criminals who break the law and get away with it, in the very same sentence where you described how you only occasionally break the law and get away with it.
Again, going 7 over is not a criminal offense by any stretch of imagination.
So, laws only count when they're criminal laws? Civil laws don't count? Administrative laws don't count? It should be OK to dump toxic waste into the water because that's only an EPA administrative regulation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 1:17 PM Taz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 104 of 116 (620192)
06-14-2011 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Taz
06-02-2011 2:34 PM


Re: Really
Now that the guy has been sentenced to life imprison, I don't understand why I have to feed, clothe, and shelter him.
Because it's for your benefit that he's been imprisoned, not his. We don't put criminals into jail as a favor to them, we do it as a favor to ourselves. Ergo we're responsible for feeding and clothing them while they're there. (You don't explain, exactly, how you plan to incarcerate someone in an area that isn't also a shelter. If there's nothing keeping the wind out, what keeps them in?)
You don't understand the purpose of incarceration? Here's a hint - people don't want to be punished even if you decide they deserve it, so a considerable degree of coercion is required. And they have to be fed and clothed or else every sentence longer than a few weeks is an execution.
It's using my tax dollars to let him live a relatively comfortable life till he dies.
Yup! Nobody forced you to put the guy in jail in the first place; presumably you did it, or took part in it indirectly by funding and supporting a society with laws and jails, because you stand to reap some benefit by not having rapists walking the street freely.
He claims to see no distinction between going just 1 over the speed limit and committing a criminal offense like armed robbery.
I never claimed that. I'm continuing to ask you - because you won't say - where this line between "real" laws and "pretend" laws is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 2:34 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by bluescat48, posted 06-14-2011 11:12 PM crashfrog has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 105 of 116 (620231)
06-14-2011 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by crashfrog
06-14-2011 5:30 PM


Re: Really
You don't understand the purpose of incarceration? Here's a hint - people don't want to be punished even if you decide they deserve it, so a considerable degree of coercion is required. And they have to be fed and clothed or else every sentence longer than a few weeks is an execution.
So charge the cost to the prisoner and his family.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by crashfrog, posted 06-14-2011 5:30 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by crashfrog, posted 06-14-2011 11:15 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
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