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Author Topic:   Jose Guerena
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 16 of 116 (616794)
05-24-2011 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by New Cat's Eye
05-24-2011 12:10 PM


CS writes:
Because their food is so delicious?
Sorry to ruin the fantasy, but I've been assured by practically every asian I've talked to that their foods in the restaurant business have been heavily modified for white people.
Just a couple months ago, we were invited to this vietnamese family thing. Right smack in the middle of the table, we saw a dish with little yellow round things that looked like oversized rice. I asked what it was and it turned out to be silkworm.
Eating Silkworms | Muffin Top
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-24-2011 12:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-24-2011 12:21 PM Taz has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 116 (616797)
05-24-2011 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
05-24-2011 12:19 PM


Awe, come on. I'd rather type about how shitty the cops are!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 12:19 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 12:22 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 18 of 116 (616798)
05-24-2011 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
05-24-2011 12:21 PM


But CS, I used to be a cop, and surely I'm not shitty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-24-2011 12:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-24-2011 12:23 PM Taz has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 116 (616802)
05-24-2011 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taz
05-24-2011 12:22 PM


What makes you so sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 12:22 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 1:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 20 of 116 (616821)
05-24-2011 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
05-24-2011 12:23 PM


The fact that I'm not banned yet.

This message is a reply to:
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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 21 of 116 (616879)
05-24-2011 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Taz
05-24-2011 11:52 AM


Re: Be Afraid
Let's work with the facts that we do have. Why do you think the shooting was not justified?
Primarily, because Jose did not discharge his weapon. But again the facts that we do have are not enough to pass judgement.
But everyone is a potential criminal.
That is not true. Think about all the people that you personally know. Is every one of them a potential violent criminal? That is like saying that everyone is a potential physics professor. Or did you mean a criminal like me for having an expired vehicle tag?
Overall, the national crime rate was 3977 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 4852 crimes per 100,000 residents thirty years earlier in 1974 (-18%).[2]
Source
So about 4 people out of every 100 were charged (maybe convicted) with a violent crime in 2004. This number dwindles even further when you take out the crimes against property and animals. Also, as I understand it, the vast majority of those convicted of a violent crime committed it against someone they know. Not against some random stranger and definitely not against the police.
In fact, a recent study show that roughly about 60% of the population has gone through the criminal system in one form or other.
Hmmm. Was it carried out by the police and presented at a budget meeting? Can we have a look at it?
From your description alone, I can see why some of their flags were raised.
Really Taz? How so? But that is my point. Their flags are always raised. Gain is set to 10.
Don’t take my comments the wrong way. I have a high respect for the law. I have a default setting of politeness and respect whenever I interact with the police. I appreciate the shit that they are forced to deal with. I understand that somewhere in a cops mind he has to be aware that some people are violent and just waiting to go off. How does that justify treating everyone like a criminal when the real number of those people is less than 4 in a 100?
I don’t know how it is where you are but up here the police swear an oath to be professional, to seek peaceful resolution to conflict, to serve the public. Who are they serving if everyone is a criminal in their opinion? Peaceful resolution seldom involves brute force and ignorance. This is how the police should conduct themselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 11:52 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 10:46 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 22 of 116 (616919)
05-24-2011 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dogmafood
05-24-2011 9:21 PM


Re: Be Afraid
Dogmafood writes:
Primarily, because Jose did not discharge his weapon.
Perfect answer from someone who's never been trained or involved in a fire fight.
In the real world, you don't wait for the other guy to shoot you first. That's liberal commie mumbo jumbo bullshit.
Think about all the people that you personally know....That is like saying that everyone is a potential physics professor.
(1) Cops don't personally know everyone.
(2) Physics professors don't kill or maim people.
So about 4 people out of every 100 were charged (maybe convicted) with a violent crime in 2004. This number dwindles even further when you take out the crimes against property and animals. Also, as I understand it, the vast majority of those convicted of a violent crime committed it against someone they know. Not against some random stranger and definitely not against the police.
There was a foreign movie I just saw about this very subject, actually. But it was about a war. So, we have 2 warlords fighting each other. They are at a stalemate. Warlord A wants to force warlord B to retreat 30 miles. So, every night he'd have people make a lot of sounds and battle noises every other hour. And each and every time warlord B would mobilize his army to prepare for an attack.
Warlord B's advisors advised him to not pay attention any longer and let the army continue to sleep because after the first few nights it was obvious the cries for battle were fake. Warlord B said to his subjects "all it takes is for 1 out of 100 for the attack to be real and they'd be dead if they weren't prepared." 7 sleepless nights later, warlord B ordered his army to retreat.
Or let's look at it from another angle. Suppose you're standing there and a machine is tossing knives in your direction at random times. I'll make it easier for you. Each knife only has 1% chance of hitting you. Are you willing to continue to stand there for the sake of being nice?
Hmmm. Was it carried out by the police and presented at a budget meeting? Can we have a look at it?
I heard it on npr while driving. Can't find it now. I'll give it to you when I do.
How does that justify treating everyone like a criminal when the real number of those people is less than 4 in a 100?
Worst that could happen to normal people is a slight inconvenience and a pissed off feeling. The worst that could happen to a cop is his life.
Again, say there are knives flying in your direction and they got a 1 in a 100 chance of hitting you. How comfortable do you feel?
This is how the police should conduct themselves.
Funny how you mentioned that video. Something like that happened to me with a drunk. All I did was let him continue to mouth me off while I wrote his tickets and paperwork to charge him. You know what happened to me? I got a reprimand from my serg because (1) I was being too nice to take all that shit and (2) I was sending that drunk a message that he could do that with every cop out there.
So, the next time I got another mouthy DUI, my serg told me to watch him and then he got into a yelling match with the drunk.
I guess it depends on one's perspective. While I was a cop, I was a really laid back cop. I never showed that I cared when people got mouthy with me. In the particular department that I was in, the guys didn't like that. They wanted me to be tougher. I guess I still don't agree with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dogmafood, posted 05-24-2011 9:21 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 05-24-2011 11:05 PM Taz has replied
 Message 24 by Theodoric, posted 05-24-2011 11:14 PM Taz has replied
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-25-2011 10:38 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 35 by Dogmafood, posted 05-26-2011 9:03 AM Taz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 116 (616922)
05-24-2011 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taz
05-24-2011 10:46 PM


Re: Be Afraid
Worst that could happen to normal people is a slight inconvenience and a pissed off feeling.
Well, no, Taz. The worst that could happen to a normal person is that he could be shot and killed by police.
The problem, again, is that we've instituted this police culture that says that nobody's life is more important than a cop's, and that a cop has every right to do whatever he thinks he has to, to come home safe at the end of the day.
If you want to be safe don't be a cop. (As I say, it's actually pretty safe to be a cop but still.) The job is where you're supposed to put your life on the line for us, not the reverse. But a lot of cops have become cowards with guns, scared of every shadow, worried that if they don't go in ready to blaze they may not make it out alive.
So, the next time I got another mouthy DUI, my serg told me to watch him and then he got into a yelling match with the drunk.
And you still don't think that for most cops - for the ones we reward, anyway - it's about authoritarian control of every situation, not keeping the peace?
Amazing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 10:46 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 24 of 116 (616923)
05-24-2011 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taz
05-24-2011 10:46 PM


Re: Be Afraid
Worst that could happen to normal people is a slight inconvenience and a pissed off feeling.
Tell that to Amadou Diallo's family.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 10:46 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 11:56 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 25 of 116 (616925)
05-24-2011 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by crashfrog
05-24-2011 11:05 PM


Re: Be Afraid
Why do you think I quit being a cop? It just didn't match with my personality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 05-24-2011 11:05 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 26 of 116 (616926)
05-24-2011 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Theodoric
05-24-2011 11:14 PM


Re: Be Afraid
Dark surrounding... pointing something at the police... common sense...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Theodoric, posted 05-24-2011 11:14 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 05-25-2011 9:12 AM Taz has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 27 of 116 (616948)
05-25-2011 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Taz
05-24-2011 11:56 PM


Re: Be Afraid
He was pulling his wallet out of his pocket. He wasn't pointing anything.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 11:56 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Taz, posted 05-25-2011 10:07 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 28 of 116 (616952)
05-25-2011 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Theodoric
05-25-2011 9:12 AM


Re: Be Afraid
Theodoric writes:
He was pulling his wallet out of his pocket. He wasn't pointing anything.
Have you ever played the what-if game with your friends? I'm a history buff, so I play this game quite often. After you played it for a while, you will realize that a lot of famous figures in history were idiots. Why? Because they didn't know something that you know now. All those French and British idiots who could have gone all the way to Berlin during the phony war period but didn't do shit. All those American idiots who saw all the signs of an impending Japanese attack but didn't do shit.
Do you really want to play this game using our point of view to judge those in the past?
And yes, he was pointing something. In the dark, he put his hand in his pocket, took out his wallet, and held it out (pointing) to the police officers. The situation was made worse when one of the cops tripped and fell backward.
I'm not saying it was completely his fault. I'm not saying it was completely the cops fault. But I blame on the situation. It sucked for both parties.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 05-25-2011 9:12 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 05-25-2011 10:44 AM Taz has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 116 (616960)
05-25-2011 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taz
05-24-2011 10:46 PM


Re: Be Afraid
Dogmafood writes:
Primarily, because Jose did not discharge his weapon.
Perfect answer from someone who's never been trained or involved in a fire fight.
In the real world, you don't wait for the other guy to shoot you first. That's liberal commie mumbo jumbo bullshit.
They were comming for him. Them shooting first makes this an assault and they should be put in prison. According to your logic, he should have started shooting at them, right?
Worst that could happen to normal people is a slight inconvenience and a pissed off feeling. The worst that could happen to a cop is his life.
You might wanna re-think that statement in a thread about a guy getting killed in his home by the cops...
Anyways, nobody is forced to be a cop or joins without understanding the dangers. Its a part of the job.
Again, say there are knives flying in your direction and they got a 1 in a 100 chance of hitting you. How comfortable do you feel?
I dunno, did I decide to become a knife dodger as my profession?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Taz, posted 05-24-2011 10:46 PM Taz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 116 (616961)
05-25-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Taz
05-25-2011 10:07 AM


Re: Be Afraid
I'm not saying it was completely his fault. I'm not saying it was completely the cops fault. But I blame on the situation.
You can always "blame the situation", but police who understood that their job was to put their own lives on the line for public safety wouldn't have fired until it was absolutely certain that they needed to - not to defend their own lives but to protect public safety. Coward cops who believed that they had the right to kill whoever they thought they needed to kill to "make it home at the end of the day", on the other hand, blew Amadou Diallo away.
They did exactly what they were trained to do. It's the training that's the problem - somehow along the way we got to a point where we told cops that they had the most dangerous job in the world and that the only thing they were expected to do was survive:
quote:
It started out as another routine day on patrol for Officer Steve Gallagher cruising the streets of Olympia, Wash. At an imposing 6’ 4 and 240 pounds, armed with a .45 caliber Heckler and Koch semiautomatic pistol, handcuffs and pepper spray, he was always ready to respond to the call. Like all cops, his goal at the end of his shift was to make it home safely, which for Gallagher meant to be with his teenage daughter, Molly. What would the call be on this particular day back in 2004? Shots fired? Burglary in progress? Domestic violence? Drug dealing?
http://www.chnonline.org/...vest-for-priestly-vestments.html
If you want to "make it home safely" go work in an office. Society has no use for a coward cop.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Taz, posted 05-25-2011 10:07 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Taz, posted 05-25-2011 11:35 AM crashfrog has replied

  
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