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Author Topic:   How New Testament Fundi Christians Bless Atheists, Roman Catholics And Others
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 112 (611833)
04-11-2011 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Huntard
04-11-2011 12:49 PM


Buz tends to forget that Jesus would be definitely called a Socialist if not a Communist.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Huntard, posted 04-11-2011 12:49 PM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 1:00 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 112 (611834)
04-11-2011 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
04-11-2011 12:51 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
jar writes:
Buz tends to forget that Jesus would be definitely called a Socialist if not a Communist.
The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory. It was totally voluntary and applied only to individuals, his little group of apostles and later to churches.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 04-11-2011 12:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 04-11-2011 1:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 22 by jar, posted 04-11-2011 2:19 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 23 by ringo, posted 04-11-2011 2:29 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 39 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-12-2011 9:04 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 112 (611837)
04-11-2011 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 1:00 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buz tends to forget that Jesus would be definitely called a Socialist if not a Communist.
The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory. It was totally voluntary and applied only to individuals, his little group of apostles and later to churches.
Matthew 5:42 writes:
Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Sometimes I wonder if this means more than just the church and, if so, if I am expected to literally give to all who ask.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 19 of 112 (611838)
04-11-2011 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 8:52 AM


quote:
And, of course, it was Western Europe from which the Plymouth folks left, risking their lives from oppression.
From PROTESTANT oppression. And they had a miserable time of it in the early years, saved only by the pagan native inhabitants.
quote:
It was Western Europe from which Hitler was able to arise to instigate the Jewish Holocaust.
Hitler has been gone for more than 60 years. And we should not forget the toxic legacy of Christian anti-semitism that helped enable the Holocaust. Nor the opposition to him in Western Europe either.
Will you claim that Britain is a fundamentalist nation now, for successfully standing against Hitler ?
quote:
It is Western Europe which is now becoming rapidly socialistic and Islamized.
That is - to put it simply - crap. I'm amazed that you would post this on the day in which a French law banning full face veils went into effect ! And if all you mean is that European nations have democratically elected governments following policies you don't like and allow Muslims to worship freely then you are objecting TO freedom.
quote:
Wrong! How could that be when church was held in the halls of congress and the New England Primer, the Bible and Watt's Hymnal were in the public schools?
Oh no ! That proves that the Founders must all have been secret Fundamentalist conspirators who lied about their own beliefs and principles - the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are all a massive fraud ! You would have to be mad to believe all that.
That does not change the facts. Franklin was a Deist. Jefferson was so liberal a Christian that - despite his reverence for the teachings attributed to Jesus - he compared the rest of the Bible to a "dunghill". Washington refused to participate in Communion, a rite supposedly commanded by Jesus himself. Thomas Paine is another deist and freethinker and an opponent of Christianity.
quote:
Have you forgotten your history? Remember the part about the Spanish Inquisition? Historically, Spain has not been a bastion of freedom, especially for Protestants.
And therefore history must be wrong and Spain was not a rich and powerful nation despite all that ? Far from refuting my point, you have only emphasised it.
quote:
It is fundamentalist Christian policies which have been implemented by due process at the poles that makes the laws
Like what ? And how have they added to liberty ?
quote:
. If you don't like certain laws, work harder to get your way. In recent decades it's been working quite well on the behalf of the secularist ideologies of you people.
I agree with that. My point is that all too many Fundamentalist Christians do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 8:52 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 112 (611839)
04-11-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by fearandloathing
04-11-2011 12:50 PM


Re: Native Americans
fearandloathing writes:
I wonder how blessed the native Americans feel? Tell me how Fundy christians have helped them?
Good question. When I was young my dad leased a ranch in Wyoming on the Indian reservation. I grew up with and near two Native American reservations. My family lived among one tribe for some years. Back then the government gave them welfare and they received significant oil royalties. They had it made, but the freebies ruined them. All most of them did was drink, get in auto wrecks, fights and other trouble.
Our church had a mission ministry among them. The ones who converted to fundi Christianity cleaned up their act. Nearly all of the churches among them were RC. For the most part their religion amounted to a conglomeration of RC and pagan.
There was a fundi Christian Native American evangelist who would come to the reservations to minister. My dad gave him a late model Buick and other support to him and his evangelistic family.
The Native Americans who were industrious had it made with all of the perks plus their ranches or businesses. Some were rich.
Unlike some of these Western tribes, tribes like the Senecas here in upstate NY fared better because they didn't get all of the government hand out. They were known for steeplejacks etc due to their agility. I know one who is a great welder. Many of them live in nice homes, compared to most Western reservations.
Before the founders came to America, the pagan natives were very warlike, keeping one another at bay etc. They often applied torture, brutality and fear tactics in their cultures.
Imo, the North American Native Americans, by and large have fared better than pre-occupation of the white man. However it was a mistake for us to consign them to reservations rather than let them assimilate and earn their own living.
As for breaking the treaties, LOL. The government has a very bad track record on that count with all Americans. A good example is when, by the stroke of the pen, our promissory silver certificate notes promising exchange of the note for silver, for which it represented were rescinded.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by fearandloathing, posted 04-11-2011 12:50 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by fearandloathing, posted 04-11-2011 2:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 37 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-12-2011 8:44 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 21 of 112 (611841)
04-11-2011 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 1:38 PM


Re: Native Americans
I am sure there would be native Americans who would see things different, but you know as well as I that its hard to get every one to agree on simple things, let alone on the tough stuff like how USA and its founding fathers treated Natives.
I see the Christian churches doing good for the community locally. Many of them have formed a group, Allied Churches of Alamance county. They run a homeless shelter/ soup kitchen, donate to loaves and fishes food bank, provide drivers for meals on wheels,and probably many more. These programs don't care who you are, they are available to anyone who needs them.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 1:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 112 (611842)
04-11-2011 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 1:00 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
Buz tends to forget that Jesus would be definitely called a Socialist if not a Communist.
The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory. It was totally voluntary and applied only to individuals, his little group of apostles and later to churches.
HUH?
As if not being governmental makes a difference? And voluntary? Hardly.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 1:00 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 23 of 112 (611843)
04-11-2011 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 1:00 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
Buzsaw writes:
The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory.
Governments stepped in to feed the hungry, etc. only after the New Testament Fundie Christians failed to do it. The fact is that you rely on atheists, Roman Catholics, etc. to help you to do what Jesus called on you to to.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 1:00 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 5:28 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 24 of 112 (611845)
04-11-2011 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
04-11-2011 12:36 PM


Re: Spirtual or Secular?
Much of our laws evolved from English Common Law and from the Ten Commandments before that.
Maybe you can provide some evidence for this. Thomas Jefferson was quite convinced that this was not true.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 112 (611871)
04-11-2011 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ringo
04-11-2011 2:29 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
ringo writes:
Buzsaw writes:
The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory.
Governments stepped in to feed the hungry, etc. only after the New Testament Fundie Christians failed to do it. The fact is that you rely on atheists, Roman Catholics, etc. to help you to do what Jesus called on you to to.
In Jesus's day? No.
I'm not denying that non-fundi groups do not help these days. I'm talking by and large, historically. Christian fundi nations have faired better by and large with more freedom and prosperity etc.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by ringo, posted 04-11-2011 2:29 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 04-11-2011 5:39 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 27 by frako, posted 04-11-2011 6:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 28 by Coragyps, posted 04-11-2011 6:13 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 04-11-2011 7:01 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 112 (611873)
04-11-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 5:28 PM


Topic Buz, remember the topic?
Buzsaw writes:
ringo writes:
Buzsaw writes:
The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory.
Governments stepped in to feed the hungry, etc. only after the New Testament Fundie Christians failed to do it. The fact is that you rely on atheists, Roman Catholics, etc. to help you to do what Jesus called on you to to.
In Jesus's day? No.
I'm not denying that non-fundi groups do not help these days. I'm talking by and large, historically. Christian fundi nations have faired better by and large with more freedom and prosperity etc.
Evidence Buz, evidence.
As usual you present no such evidence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 5:28 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 11:10 PM jar has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 27 of 112 (611874)
04-11-2011 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 5:28 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
I'm not denying that non-fundi groups do not help these days. I'm talking by and large, historically. Christian fundi nations have faired better by and large with more freedom and prosperity etc.
Umm like say Europe did soooo much better then the Muslim nations during Europes dark ages you know the time where the muslim nations where the last beacons of progress where their art, science and education prospered and Europes say medical knowledge plummeted to repent and the sickness will leave you if god wills it.
And in case if you are asking yea Muslims where doing grate and had lots of advancements during those times then more and more radical wives of the quoran where adopted and they ended up in the bronze age tough ts the 21st century.
If creationist or other radical wives where to drastically take over any country it would not take long for that country to revert its progress and go back to the bronze age.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 28 of 112 (611875)
04-11-2011 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 5:28 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
I'm not denying that non-fundi groups do not help these days. I'm talking by and large, historically.
Then, again, you are talking out your ass. The NON-fundy churches were the ones, in the United States for sure, that did the bulk of the charity work back before Franklin Roosevelt. You hardly ever see "St. Vitus's Pentecostal Holiness Hospital." Methodist? Yup. Presbyterian? Check. Catholic? Lots of 'em.
You are Making Stuff Up, Buz.
Edited by Coragyps, : fix tag

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 5:28 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 11:16 PM Coragyps has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 29 of 112 (611876)
04-11-2011 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
04-11-2011 5:28 PM


Re: Jesus On Sharing
Buzsaw writes:
In Jesus's day? No.
Read what I wrote:
quote:
Governments stepped in to feed the hungry, etc. only after the New Testament Fundie Christians failed to do it.
AFTER the New Testament Fundie Christians had failed to take care of the poor for centuries, government stepped in only in the past few generations. Don't pretend that that's a bad thing.
Buzsaw writes:
Christian fundi nations have faired better by and large with more freedom and prosperity etc.
I gave you examples of groups of people who left your "fundie nation" to find more freedom in our "Catholic nation".

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 5:28 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2011 11:14 PM ringo has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 112 (611883)
04-11-2011 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
04-11-2011 5:39 PM


Re: Topic Buz, remember the topic?
Jar, you post short bare assertion after bare assertion. Get off my back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 04-11-2011 5:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 04-12-2011 8:54 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
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