Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,807 Year: 3,064/9,624 Month: 909/1,588 Week: 92/223 Day: 3/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Science Fiction When There's Spaceships Already?
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 16 of 30 (611856)
04-11-2011 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Briterican
04-11-2011 3:34 PM


Re: Sci-fi failures
Briterican writes:
ringo writes:
What I find interesting is where science fiction writers really miss the boat with out-of-date technology.
Yes. It's fun to look at some of the older sci-fi stuff (you don't even have to go very far back) to notice things like cathode ray tubes in what is meant to be the year 2500 or some such. I was just watching "Alien" the other night and the graphics technology presented is nowhere near what we have now, much less what we would have at a time when we have giant mining vessels travelling to other worlds (aka the Nostromo).
I am fascinated with the things that sci-fi has either consistently overestimated (flying cars, bases on the moon and mars) or almost completely overlooked ... the ONLY example that comes to mind immediately on that second point is the internet...
Although I'm sure there are other examples of older sci-fi predicting the internet (or some similar planet-wide information sharing technology), the ONLY example of such that I can think of is A Logic Named Joe - Wikipedia - from the March 1946 edition of Astounding Science Fiction - and adapted into a radio play on the brilliant (albeit dated) old-time-radio programme "X-Minus 1". It imagined a calculating machine that could be asked any question and it would give an answer. Of course the controversy came when someone asked it for advice on killing someone and it responded with a poison formula or something like that... my memory fails me.
If anyone has examples of pre-1960's sci-fi that predicted the internet, I'd love to give it a read.
Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" series, If I remember correctly does, on an even larger scale, an intergalactic interconnectivity. Much or it was written in the 40's
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 3:34 PM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:19 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 17 of 30 (611857)
04-11-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Briterican
04-11-2011 3:34 PM


Re: Sci-fi failures
Briterican writes:
Yes. It's fun to look at some of the older sci-fi stuff (you don't even have to go very far back) to notice things like cathode ray tubes in what is meant to be the year 2500 or some such. I was just watching "Alien" the other night and the graphics technology presented is nowhere near what we have now, much less what we would have at a time when we have giant mining vessels travelling to other worlds (aka the Nostromo).
there's actually an amusing quote from ridley scott somewhere describing the technology he originally wanted to have in alien. for instance, the main computer interface chamber, originally, was supposed to have floating translucent flat screen monitors, of course with slick graphics.
they went the way they did because, well. these guys are a mining crew in deep space. they need rugged equipment that's not going to break when they touch it, because there's nothing to repair it for like 100 light years. and they need clearly legible computer interfaces -- not a bunch of slick graphics.
the other reason being costs. but that's largely been negated, now. LCDs are getting cheaper by the day. so, i think you'll actually find that, probably until just recently, most industrial uses of computer technology followed a similar pattern.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 3:34 PM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:21 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 18 of 30 (611858)
04-11-2011 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by frako
04-11-2011 3:55 PM


frako writes:
well some writers do hit the nail on the head, one of the early bond movies had a GPS in his car. So did kit in knight rider. Oh and while weare by kit self driving cars are being invented now. The un invasive medical scanners from star treck well magnetic imaging comes to mind used worldwide not that portable as of yet tough
George Orwell wrote a book about a world where people are being watched by others on telescreens and nobody knows when and where tghey are being watched sound familiar cameras everywhere big brother is always watching
someone said for predictions of the Internet well i think mark twain did it 100 years ago.
Twain sort of did, he envisioned a global telephone type network.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by frako, posted 04-11-2011 3:55 PM frako has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 19 of 30 (611859)
04-11-2011 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by fearandloathing
04-11-2011 3:59 PM


Re: Sci-fi failures
fearandloathing writes:
Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" series, If I remember correctly does, on an even larger scale, an intergalactic interconnectivity. Much or it was written in the 40's
Good point, and a fantastic series of novels. It's been a while since I read it but I don't remember any specificity with regard to networked communication, but I don't doubt that it was there - it would sorta be a prerequisite to the types of calculations the "psychohistorians" needed to do.
I'm slightly disappointed with our complete lack of solar-system-wide bases that appear in tons of old sci-fi stuff. I mean, 2001 had as with moon bases and manned expeditions to Jupiter for crying out loud.
I suppose the thing to keep in mind there is that we HAVE had the capacity to do these things for many years, just not the funding or motivation. Not to mention that there's been no real NEED to send humans to these places when we have sent very efficient intelligence gathering probes instead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by fearandloathing, posted 04-11-2011 3:59 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by arachnophilia, posted 04-11-2011 4:23 PM Briterican has seen this message but not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 20 of 30 (611860)
04-11-2011 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by arachnophilia
04-11-2011 4:00 PM


My other spaceship is a Porsche
arachnophilia writes:
they went the way they did because, well. these guys are a mining crew in deep space. they need rugged equipment that's not going to break when they touch it, because there's nothing to repair it for like 100 light years. and they need clearly legible computer interfaces -- not a bunch of slick graphics.
A valid point, hadn't thought about it that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by arachnophilia, posted 04-11-2011 4:00 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by arachnophilia, posted 04-11-2011 4:30 PM Briterican has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 21 of 30 (611861)
04-11-2011 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Briterican
04-11-2011 4:19 PM


Re: Sci-fi failures
Briterican writes:
I'm slightly disappointed with our complete lack of solar-system-wide bases that appear in tons of old sci-fi stuff. I mean, 2001 had as with moon bases and manned expeditions to Jupiter for crying out loud.
I suppose the thing to keep in mind there is that we HAVE had the capacity to do these things for many years, just not the funding or motivation. Not to mention that there's been no real NEED to send humans to these places when we have sent very efficient intelligence gathering probes instead.
yeah, but where's our sense of adventure?
there are just certain things probes can't do. i don't know that jupiter is ideally suited for a manned expedition, but we really should have been to mars by now.
the only bit from 2001 that isn't actually possible at the moment is the cryogenic sleep. but i think that was a reasonable failure -- we didn't know then just how difficult it would be to achieve.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:19 PM Briterican has seen this message but not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 22 of 30 (611862)
04-11-2011 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Briterican
04-11-2011 4:21 PM


Re: My other spaceship is a Porsche
Briterican writes:
arachnophilia writes:
they went the way they did because, well. these guys are a mining crew in deep space. they need rugged equipment that's not going to break when they touch it, because there's nothing to repair it for like 100 light years. and they need clearly legible computer interfaces -- not a bunch of slick graphics.
A valid point, hadn't thought about it that way.
"truckers in space" and all that. it almost seems like fanboy-retconning, but ridley did indeed say something to that effect.
btw, there's a new alien movie being made right now. i'm sort of interested to see how it's done. it's a sort-of prequel, titled prometheus, and promises to have less to do with the xenomorphs we saw in the other movies, and more to do with the really big one on the derelict at the beginning of the first movie. scott is at the helm for this one again, so i'm really interested in seeing what he does with 30+ years of technological difference on the production end, and what the technology will look like the movie. we might well see that really slick fancy stuff in spaceships that aren't space-big-rigs.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:21 PM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:36 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 23 of 30 (611863)
04-11-2011 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tram law
04-10-2011 7:45 AM


Time dilation would screw the proverbial pooch
And... to apologise for getting off topic a bit... here's a comment relating to the OP...
Tram law writes:
One of the things I wonder about from time to is if we lived in a society with high levels of technology, such as say that in Star Trek, were commonplace and humanity can travel among the stars, I often think about what would science fiction be like.
I would guess that the science fiction of such a world would, as sci-fi has always done, explore the further consequences of what is now known or knowable.... i.e. in a world with faster-than-light engines and holodecks, science fiction would spend more time poking into other universes, alternate realities, the micro world, and so forth.
And to venture slightly off topic again, is it just me or is the entire notion of "galactic empire" simply not feasible regardless of the state of technology due to time dilation effects? I mean, I'm no physicist but... haven't we proven that there is no such thing as simultaneity on an interstellar scale? In other words, even if we could travel faster than light, and zip from one star to another in minutes... wouldn't we all be way out-of sync with one another rather quickly? i.e. those departing, upon return, would find thousands of years had passed and everyone they ever knew was dead?
Edited by Briterican, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tram law, posted 04-10-2011 7:45 AM Tram law has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by fearandloathing, posted 04-11-2011 5:00 PM Briterican has not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 24 of 30 (611865)
04-11-2011 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by arachnophilia
04-11-2011 4:30 PM


Re: My other spaceship is a Porsche
arachnophilia writes:
scott is at the helm for this one again
Outstanding. You've peaked my curiosity, and thanks for the heads-up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by arachnophilia, posted 04-11-2011 4:30 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 25 of 30 (611866)
04-11-2011 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tram law
04-10-2011 7:45 AM


One of the things I wonder about from time to is if we lived in a society with high levels of technology, such as say that in Star Trek, were commonplace and humanity can travel among the stars, I often think about what would science fiction be like.
Wouldn't they just call it "fiction"?
There will always be technology that is just beyond our grasp, and that is what the science fiction authors of the future will write about. Besides, science fiction has always been about the present, about us. The utopia of the Star Trek universe (no racism, no sexism, no poverty, etc.) was a criticism of our modern age. Star Wars was a retelling of the classic epics that have been around since the invention of the camp fire, about flawed heroes conquering villians with a heart of gold. Be it fantasy, fiction, or science fiction they all tell the same story. The only thing that changes is the setting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tram law, posted 04-10-2011 7:45 AM Tram law has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-12-2011 4:56 AM Taq has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 26 of 30 (611868)
04-11-2011 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Briterican
04-11-2011 3:34 PM


Re: Sci-fi failures
A couple of my favourite stories about computers are Asimov's The Feeling Of Power and Clarke's The Nine Billion Names of God.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 3:34 PM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:52 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Briterican
Member (Idle past 3948 days)
Posts: 340
Joined: 05-29-2008


Message 27 of 30 (611869)
04-11-2011 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
04-11-2011 4:48 PM


Re: Sci-fi failures
ringo writes:
A couple of my favourite stories about computers are Asimov's The Feeling Of Power and Clarke's The Nine Billion Names of God.
Outstanding, thanks for that. Wasn't aware of this website either, looks like a good source. I shall use my netbook to read these I seem to recall reading Nine Billion Names ages ago, but not sure about Power.
Thanks again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 04-11-2011 4:48 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 28 of 30 (611870)
04-11-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Briterican
04-11-2011 4:33 PM


Re: Time dilation would screw the proverbial pooch
Yea, The relativistic effects are rarely a concern for sci-fi.
I enjoyed the new " Battlestar Galactica" show, I watched the original growing up, and found the new one much more to my taste in sci fi. In one episode the effects of travel near the speed of light was mentioned, and the relativistic effects, but as far as I can recall the reason why this was not a problem with the FTL drive was never explained.
There are many great sci fi stories with so many different ideas of how the future might look I can only Imagine what the future of sci=fi will hold. I hope we never get so smart as to not be able to imagine the "what ifs" anymore.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Briterican, posted 04-11-2011 4:33 PM Briterican has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 29 of 30 (611912)
04-12-2011 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tram law
04-10-2011 7:45 AM


The purpose of science fiction is to put people into situations that are more interesting, or at least more novel, then the normal sort of situations we have. The spaceships are merely ways to get people to those unusual situations.
So as long as people can still find ways to make fiction stranger than truth, that'll be science fiction. Even when we can go to other planets, we'll still be able to imagine strange other planets in places we haven't visited yet. We'll just have to stop writing sci-fi about the places we've been to, just like no-one today puts aliens on Mars or writes stories set in the futuristic society of the year 2000.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tram law, posted 04-10-2011 7:45 AM Tram law has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 30 of 30 (611914)
04-12-2011 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Taq
04-11-2011 4:43 PM


There will always be technology that is just beyond our grasp, and that is what the science fiction authors of the future will write about.
Very little science fiction has really been about that. Some of Arthur C. Clarke, perhaps.
Be it fantasy, fiction, or science fiction they all tell the same story. The only thing that changes is the setting.
Yes, for example Beyond Lies The Wub is that old classic story of man meets sentient alien, man eats sentient alien, sentient alien becomes man.
Good science fiction isn't just cowboys and indians or cops and robbers ... on Mars ... with laser guns ... or what would be the point?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 04-11-2011 4:43 PM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024