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Author Topic:   Ken Ham is ... EXPELLED
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 16 of 76 (609878)
03-24-2011 12:27 AM


Ham defends himself:
We certainly questioned a person’s stand on Scripture, but we did not question his integrity, intelligence, or salvation.
Now, here's what he wrote about Enns and BioLogos:
Teaching The Truth Amidst A Sea Of Lies
Over the years, I have seen the lie of evolution and millions of years pushed even more by the secular world. It is so sad to see this pagan religion that tries to explain life without God so infiltrating the church. More and more organizations are being formed and more books printed by peopleeven within the churchto try to get God’s people to reject Genesis as literal history, and thus undermine the authority of God’s Word. No wonder we are losing the next generation from the church. For instance, even at this homeschool convention, there are a number of people (including speakers) that are associated with the extremely liberal Biologos Foundationan organization that is dedicated to trying to get people in the church to believe evolution and millions of years as fact. And now they are embarking on producing homeschool curriculumsuch as that from Dr. Peter Enns who spoke at this conference.
But at the same time, I praise God for the opportunity, that even in this sea of lies permeating our culture, I am able to teach the truth of God’s Word to many.

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 17 of 76 (609879)
03-24-2011 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Theodoric
03-23-2011 10:21 PM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
, not christian at all. Must be those damn Unitarians.
In one Unitarian hymn:
Some call it God,
Some call it evolution.
Guess'n you know where we stand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Theodoric, posted 03-23-2011 10:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 18 of 76 (609886)
03-24-2011 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by arachnophilia
03-23-2011 9:00 PM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
arachnophilia writes:
when you actually show up to one, you find approximately two groups of people:
  1. people who don't want their kids learning about evolution, and
  2. people who don't want their kids going to school with black people
i say "approximately" because there is some degree of overlap between the two.
Is homeschooling in the US really that bad? The homeschooled in the UK certainly also include two other groups:
1. Kids who were badly bullied in mainstream schools
2. Kids who are very clever, don't thrive in state schools and whose parents can't afford to go private.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by arachnophilia, posted 03-23-2011 9:00 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 9:27 AM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 20 by jar, posted 03-24-2011 9:37 AM Dr Jack has not replied
 Message 23 by Blue Jay, posted 03-24-2011 10:42 AM Dr Jack has not replied
 Message 30 by arachnophilia, posted 03-24-2011 1:12 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 76 (609892)
03-24-2011 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
03-24-2011 6:19 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Mr Jack writes:
arachnophilia writes:
when you actually show up to one, you find approximately two groups of people:
  1. people who don't want their kids learning about evolution, and
  2. people who don't want their kids going to school with black people
i say "approximately" because there is some degree of overlap between the two.
Is homeschooling in the US really that bad? The home schooled in the UK certainly also include two other groups:
1. Kids who were badly bullied in mainstream schools
2. Kids who are very clever, don't thrive in state schools and whose parents can't afford to go private.
In two separate studies, home schooled children in America, by and large, score better than public school students.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr Jack, posted 03-24-2011 6:19 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Dr Jack, posted 03-24-2011 11:08 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 76 (609894)
03-24-2011 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
03-24-2011 6:19 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Mr Jack writes:
Is homeschooling in the US really that bad? The homeschooled in the UK certainly also include two other groups:
1. Kids who were badly bullied in mainstream schools
2. Kids who are very clever, don't thrive in state schools and whose parents can't afford to go private.
In the US there is a different group, the "Avoidance Group". And yes, it is every bit that bad. If you want an example simply look up "A Beka Books" which is a source for much of the textbooks used by the Christian Cult of Ignorance home schoolers.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr Jack, posted 03-24-2011 6:19 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 10:06 AM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 76 (609896)
03-24-2011 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
03-24-2011 9:37 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
jar writes:
In the US there is a different group, the "Avoidance Group". And yes, it is every bit that bad. If you want an example simply look up "A Beka Books" which is a source for much of the textbooks used by the Christian Cult of Ignorance home schoolers.
Who is this "avoidance group" and how do they score, relative to the stats in my previous message link?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 03-24-2011 9:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 03-24-2011 10:16 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 76 (609897)
03-24-2011 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
03-24-2011 10:06 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Your link did not provide any information that would allow us to tell which groups their studies included. In addition, the link was yet another of those testimonial links that are just a marketing tool.
However, if a child is taught that they should trust SOURCE over CONTENT, believe that the myths of the Bible are literally true, then that child is by definition, ignorant.
The Christian Cult of Ignorance includes all the folk that cannot discriminate between fantasy and reality.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 10:06 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 12:09 PM jar has replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 23 of 76 (609898)
03-24-2011 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
03-24-2011 6:19 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Hi, Mr Jack.
Mr Jack writes:
Is homeschooling in the US really that bad?
I was homeschooled for one year. It was largely because the public school system we had just moved into was godawful, while the one we had just moved out of was one of the best in the nation.
We were involved with a local group that held a "science fair" of sorts, but I don't think we were ever involved with a major homeschooling organization or system, and we weren't actually a Christian group. And, there were black kids there, too.
But, my biology textbook was still a creationist textbook.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr Jack, posted 03-24-2011 6:19 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 24 of 76 (609901)
03-24-2011 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
03-24-2011 9:27 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Buzsaw writes:
In two separate studies, home schooled children in America, by and large, score better than public school students.
Unfortunately, those studies were carried out the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI) and not published in any peer reviewed journal. Now, while that doesn't mean that the research is wrong, the NHERI exists to promote Home Schooling (as stated on their site) so accepting their research simply on trust would be like blindly accepting research from the Milk Marketing Board that Milk is good for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 9:27 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by dwise1, posted 03-24-2011 11:52 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 25 of 76 (609903)
03-24-2011 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Dr Jack
03-24-2011 11:08 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Now, while that doesn't mean that the research is wrong, the NHERI exists to promote Home Schooling (as stated on their site) so accepting their research simply on trust would be like blindly accepting research from the Milk Marketing Board that Milk is good for you.
Or accepting from the tobacco industry's Tobacco Insitute (thankfully disbanded in 1998) that smoking is not only harmless, but actually good for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Dr Jack, posted 03-24-2011 11:08 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 76 (609904)
03-24-2011 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
03-24-2011 10:16 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
jar writes:
Your link did not provide any information that would allow us to tell which groups their studies included. In addition, the link was yet another of those testimonial links that are just a marketing tool.
You didn't answer my question. I will re-phrase it. How does your "avoidance group" fare relative to scoring vs public schools.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 03-24-2011 10:16 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 03-24-2011 12:12 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 29 by jar, posted 03-24-2011 12:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 76 (609905)
03-24-2011 12:12 PM


Question To All On Scoring:
Can anyone cite, by documentation, any home schooling group which scores lower than the public schools in their region?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 28 of 76 (609906)
03-24-2011 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
03-24-2011 12:09 PM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Buzsaw writes:
How does your "avoidance group" fare relative to scoring vs public schools.
If they're avoiding evolution, how would you expect them to score in biology?

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 12:09 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by slevesque, posted 03-24-2011 3:11 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 76 (609907)
03-24-2011 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
03-24-2011 12:09 PM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
I did answer it, and you even quoted the answer.
There is no way to tell whether or not anyone from an Avoidance School was included in the advertising polls you linked to.
However, anyone that thinks the Biblical Flood happened or tht Evolution is not a fact is by definition, ignorant.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 03-24-2011 12:09 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1371 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 30 of 76 (609914)
03-24-2011 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
03-24-2011 6:19 AM


Re: Homeschooling conventions
Mr Jack writes:
Is homeschooling in the US really that bad?
i imagine that it varies from state to state, and organization to organization.
The homeschooled in the UK certainly also include two other groups:
1. Kids who were badly bullied in mainstream schools
2. Kids who are very clever, don't thrive in state schools and whose parents can't afford to go private.
which is why i said "approximately two" above. certainly those groups are part of the homeschooling population anywhere. but in my family's experience, they are generally under-represented in the organizations.
we also have a large contingent of charter schools, thanks to budget law shenanigans. these can be anything from "essentially a public school, but doesn't have to follow the state mandates for their budget" to "a church" to "five kids in an apartment". but this presents a whole range of options for your #2 group.
Edited by arachnophilia, : broken tag

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr Jack, posted 03-24-2011 6:19 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dr Jack, posted 03-25-2011 5:41 AM arachnophilia has not replied

  
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